Buying molds

[Schwing]

I am trying to start casting as cheaply as possible. I would like to be able to tumble lube. I was wondering if the tumble lube molds are absolutely necessary or if you can tumble lube other bullets as well. It seems like limiting yourself to the tumble lube molds really cuts down on your available options.

Opinions anyone?

 

[USSR]

Probably not what you want to hear, but save your money and get a Lubrisizer. The very best moulds are not tumble lube moulds.

Don

 

[Don McDowell]

You can tumble lube any bullet. But you have to remember that the Liquid alox works differently than the lubes applied by a lubrisizer.
The LLA works by coating the outside of the bullet, hopefully lasting long enough to endure the ride down the entire length of the barrel. So if you have to size your bullets you need to apply the LLA after the sizing.
Other lubes working by "pumping" out of the lube groove going down the barrel, so as to coat the barrel and keep the bullet from "tinning" to it.

 

[rsrocket1]

You can tumble lube traditional lube grooved bullets and successfully shoot them.
I cast and shoot 9mm/357/40 traditional lube bullets tumble lubed and a TL 45ACP bullet, they all work fine when tumble lubed.

I use Recluse's 45/45/10 formula of Alox/Johnson's Paste Wax/Oderless Mineral Spirits.

I put about 500 into a gallon Ziplock bag, pour the lube over the bullets and "massage" the entire bag. "Massaging" seems to get a better uniform coating and doesn't bang up the bullets nearly as much as tossing them against each other. In the summer months the lube is already very runny and easily spreads over the bullets. In the winter, I soak the lube container in a sink of hot water and the stuff transforms from a consistency of frosting to nonfat milk in a few minutes.

After the lube, I pour them onto a cutout cardboard box bottom lined with wax paper and after a half hour or so, roll them around. This helps spread the now tacky lube and prevents any "pooled" lube from building up on the side of the bullet. If I'm in a hurry, I'll have a fan blowing on the bullets and the stuff dries in about an hour. Otherwise overnight is plenty. If you use Oderless mineral spirits, you can leave the bullets indoors and the "stink" is minimal.

I've found that I only need to size my 40 cal bullets, I can load and shoot the other caliber bullets without sizing. If you need to size the bullets, you first lube, size, then lube again. Re-lubing can consist of putting the sized bullets into the Ziplock bag, squirting a teaspoon full of mineral spirits into the bag and massaging. There is already enough lube on them to recoat the sized surface. All you need is an light tan haze over the bullet, not a thick brown coat of "mule snot".

The 45/45/10 formula dries to a firm wax-like coating that does not attract dust and powder like straight Alox which never seems to truly dry. Even if you have to pull a bullet with a kinetic puller, you can simply brush off the powder from the bullet.

Here's the instructions for the 45/45/10. Good luck.

 

[Schwing]

You can tumble lube traditional lube grooved bullets and successfully shoot them.
I cast and shoot 9mm/357/40 traditional lube bullets tumble lubed and a TL 45ACP bullet, they all work fine when tumble lubed.

I use Recluse's 45/45/10 formula of Alox/Johnson's Paste Wax/Oderless Mineral Spirits.

I put about 500 into a gallon Ziplock bag, pour the lube over the bullets and "massage" the entire bag. "Massaging" seems to get a better uniform coating and doesn't bang up the bullets nearly as much as tossing them against each other. In the summer months the lube is already very runny and easily spreads over the bullets. In the winter, I soak the lube container in a sink of hot water and the stuff transforms from a consistency of frosting to nonfat milk in a few minutes.

After the lube, I pour them onto a cutout cardboard box bottom lined with wax paper and after a half hour or so, roll them around. This helps spread the now tacky lube and prevents any "pooled" lube from building up on the side of the bullet. If I'm in a hurry, I'll have a fan blowing on the bullets and the stuff dries in about an hour. Otherwise overnight is plenty. If you use Oderless mineral spirits, you can leave the bullets indoors and the "stink" is minimal.

I've found that I only need to size my 40 cal bullets, I can load and shoot the other caliber bullets without sizing. If you need to size the bullets, you first lube, size, then lube again. Re-lubing can consist of putting the sized bullets into the Ziplock bag, squirting a teaspoon full of mineral spirits into the bag and massaging. There is already enough lube on them to recoat the sized surface. All you need is an light tan haze over the bullet, not a thick brown coat of "mule snot".

The 45/45/10 formula dries to a firm wax-like coating that does not attract dust and powder like straight Alox which never seems to truly dry. Even if you have to pull a bullet with a kinetic puller, you can simply brush off the powder from the bullet.

Here's the instructions for the 45/45/10. Good luck.

Is that johnson's wood wax that you are referring too?

 

[Arkansas Paul]

As has been said, you can tumble lube any boolit.
Follow the directions though. Don't just go with one heavy coat. Do a light coat, let dry for 24 hours or dry with a fan, and then apply another light coat. It works much better this way.

The 45-45-10 lube is great. Not nearly as sticky.
If you don't want to make your own, here is some for sale very reasonably priced.

http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=31

 

[grubbylabs]

Many folks on the cast boolit forum report lubing non tumble lube bullets with tumble lube and having great success. I have not tried it though.

But you can find Lee molds for about 20 bucks which is pretty cheap. They will often re sale on ebay for what you paid for them, if you decide you want to go with a traditional lube bullet.

 

[silicosys4]

I have had good luck tumble lubing bullets cast out of all my Lyman molds. my 9mm loads still lead a bit, but only after many rounds. I can drive my .44 magnum Keith-style loads (non gas checked) up to 1350 fps or so without leading, using only Lee's liquid alox lube. The Lee sizing dies and liquid alox tumble lubing works well enough for me that I have no intentions of moving to a separate sizer/luber station.

 

[GLOOB]

Limiting yourself to super-easy lubing? I don't see the downside. I have a couple regular molds, and they definitely don't pick up as much lube, as quickly. The Lee flying soup cans bullets look funny at first, but after awhile they'll grow on you.

 

[41 Mag]

I tumble lube everything with the 45/45/10. If you use the bag method and apply a little heat to the bullets prior to dropping the lube on them using a hair drier, (not your wife's, get one from a yard sale or Goodwill,) the lube will dry in about 5 minutes after being poured out.

I have run everything from low level 38 SPL up through 1700fps 454 loads with it and not had any issues I can contribute to the lube. The bullet design doesn't matter, lube, size, and lube again and your good to go.

I have around a dozen different Lee molds as well as some of MUCH higher quality, and then same lube get used on them all. I only recently picked up a lubesizer, like a month ago, and haven't shot the first bullets I ran through it yet. To be honest, I got it mainly for rifle bullets where I wanted to use some lube known to work well at higher velocities. I only ran some revolver bullets through it just to see how it worked primarily.

Go to the link above and pick you up some of Glen's version of the 45/45/10 and you will be set.

 

[Hondo 60]

I use Recluse's 45/45/10 formula of Alox/Johnson's Paste Wax/Oderless Mineral Spirits.

Yup, GREAT stuff.
I've got some coated bullets drying as I type this.
Only $15 for a bottle (32oz)
Not related, don't know the seller, just a satisfied customer.

http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=31

And yes, you can successfully tumble lube ANY bullet.

 

[Duckdog]

I shoot nothing but cast bullets and load for well over 20 calibers, and the only way I lube is tumble lubing. I have one 30 06 load that I crank out at 2150 FPS with Liquid Alox and get no leading at all.

I also us JPW in some pistol calibers and that stuff works wonders as well.

I disagree with the statement that the best molds are not tumble lube molds, as if any bullet is the correct size and it is lubed properly, you'll be just fine and dandy.

 

[blarby]

Kicking the horse here........

But yes, you can tumble lube any bullet.

Bullets made for machine lubing have larger lube rings, but hold LLA just as well.

It doesn't work quite so well in reverse, unless you use a really soft lube.......

 

[USSR]

I disagree with the statement that the best molds are not tumble lube molds...

Disagree all you want, but facts are facts.

http://www.mp-molds.com/

Don

 

[Duckdog]

No offense, but what does that ad have to do with showing that mold is any better than any other brand or style besides your personal preference? I cast thousands of bullets a year and have everything from Lyman to Lee molds and they all produce good bullets if handled properly.

As far as lube goes, some people subscribe to the theory that the lube should be in the grooves to leech out of the lube groves during the travel down the bore, whereas some of us subscribe to the theory that the lube should be on the surface of the bullet and be a lube that does render itself to coming off the bullet surface very easy.

I believe it is a matter of preference and as long as your chosen bullet and lube combination work for you, why change. It would be a good idea for the OP to go over to the cast boolit site and ask around there as well.

 

[hovercat]

Have you thought of pan lube? After sizing place them in a pan bases down and slowly heat with regular lube. The fine folks at castboolits can help you a lot.

 

[USSR]

No offense, but what does that ad have to do with showing that mold is any better than any other brand or style besides your personal preference? I cast thousands of bullets a year and have everything from Lyman to Lee molds and they all produce good bullets if handled properly.

Go to this site http://castboolits.gunloads.com, which is devoted to cast bullets exclusively. You will find that the brass moulds produced by http://www.mp-molds.com/ in Europe are some of the finest made. I have 3 of their moulds as well as moulds made by Lee, Lyman, and RCBS. The Lee tumble lube moulds cannot hold a candle to them. Are the Lee moulds good for what they cost? Yes, but they are not in the same league when it comes to quality.

Don

 

[Arkansas Paul]

It's not that tumble lube molds aren't the best. It's that Lee molds aren't the best.
Now don't get me wrong, I own more Lee molds than any others. I have 5 Lee, 1 Lyman and 1 RCBS. There is no comparison as to the quality of the molds themselves. The Lees cast good boolits, but i expect I will wear a few out and the iron molds will still be churning them out.

 

[rsrocket1]

Is that johnson's wood wax that you are referring too?

Yes, it's Johnson's Fine Paste Wood Wax. You can usually find them in yellow metal cans in the kitchen and cleaning sections of Walmart, Home Depot or other similar stores:

 

[Duckdog]

This is like the what's the best press or die posts. There will never be a consensus. I do know that I have never wore out an aluminum, or steel, mold made by anyone, so I will keep doing what I am doing. I do own several tumble lube molds and they do produce fine bullets that shoot very accurately.

("Disagree all you want, but facts are facts.")

I know I'm a lowly 180 ish post guy, but the only fact I know is your opinion is no more relevant than mine. Another fact I know is that you are entitled to buy whatever mold you want, but you not liking a particular brand or model does not make it a fact that it is not good. It makes it your opinion.

 

[Schwing]

My mold buying experience turned out quite special. I ordered 3 lee tumble lube style molds from Midway. The first is a 125G RN 9mm. The second is a 158g SWC 357 and the last one is a 148g WC 357. The last one is for fun since I have never used WCs before.

Where it got fun was when my credit card was declined because someone had gotten a hold of my number and was racking up hundreds of dollars in fraudulent charges... I think we have it sorted out for now but, to quote the comic book guy on the Simpsons: There is no EMOTICON for how I am feeling!

I am going to start here and see how these do. It isn't just on THR that I have read such varying opinions on molds. There are enough people who swear by the lee molds, however, that I am tossing the dice in that direction. I am hoping to pick up at least one steel mold from a higher end manufacturer in one of the above variations so I can see the difference for myself but it is probably going to be a few months.

In my younger years I worked in a CNC shop where we made a lot of molds for just about anything you can think of. Unfortunately, we never made any bullet molds. A lot of our competitors were so intent on advertising the sophistication and accuracy of their equipment that they forgot one of the golden rules of manufacturing. If the QC guy can't tell the difference between the one built on the hi end CNC mill vs. the one made on the old rusty manual mill, he is going to buy the one that costs the least regardless... I have a suspicion that bullet molds are no different but I will post back when I have had some experience with both.

Thanks for all of the input guys!