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C&B Gunsmiths - Repair, Tuning and Conversion Work

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by arcticap, Jun 14, 2020.

  1. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    Many folks often look for advice about how to repair their guns but don't know where to turn.
    When someone really needs to be referred to an experienced expert, we're fortunate that THR has it own Hoof Hearted to turn to who has been a member since 2011.
    He has a website that describes that no job is too large or too small for him.
    He specializes in installing all kinds of conversions.
    And he also has an FFL for single action work. --->>> http://cartridgeconversion.com/Home_Page.php
     
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  2. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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  3. grter

    grter Member

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    What is turn around time ?
     
  4. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Wow!! No offense but that's a loaded question if there ever was one!!
    That's like saying "how much will it cost to fix my car, will it be ready tomorrow?"

    S.A. revolvers (of any make) may have any number of problems that may or may not be apparent. Warped screwpins, misaligned screw holes in the frame, worn parts, ill fitted parts from the factory, geometry differences . . . there is way more going on than the "average Joe" knows (including competition shooters!).
    Trying to make the "finest" weapon that particular revolver can be is another level or two above "making it function" status. Some may do "function" status . . . I don't! Period.

    I'm currently "purging" my shop of all revolvers with any "time" on them as well as staying as close to current as possible. I will be offering " new in the box" custom tuned revolvers (probably in July) along with the regular "Outlaw Mule" service. It will be good for the customer, and the "Goon" as well!! Thank you previous, current and and future customers!!!

    Mike
     
  5. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Now i dont really do the whole gun smithing thing for money...but ive done it for a few local friends and i have slicked my pietta colts pretty dang well. After lots of practice on my guns and plenty of help from Mike from goons guns im pretty confident on working on other peoples guns especially with all my down time. I put a whole new wire trigger and wire bolt set up similar to mikes although i have my own take on it, thin the bolt leg and cam, put in a cap post and a fouling/cap sheild that keeps cap fragments and fouling from entering the guns internals via the hammer slot. I dont have pics for the internals but i have pics of the cap post and fouling blocker...its similar to what Mike from goons gun works does...funny thing is it was the first customization i ever did to my guns back in 2002 or so when i first messed with cap guns and hated caps falling into the hammer slot..so i built this little sheild thats built into the hammer...come to find out years later its actually an idea used today by mike at goons. I guess great minds really do think alike. So if anyone has a colt theyd like slicked up for the cost of shipping id be happy to do it...wont take me a few days but id say give me a week or so to finish it. All i ask is that you give honest feedback on this forum and show people the work. Ill even give a picture of me with my drivers license etc just incase you feel you cant trust me and need to turn me in to the cops or somethin. Ive worked quite a few piettas, never worked an uberti colt but im sure it will be just as easy. Heres a pic of my cap post and my hard/stiff aluminum sheilding that keeps the fouling and caps out of the hammer slot...i also use sheet brass too. 20200529_211958.jpg
     
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  6. woodnbow
    • Contributing Member

    woodnbow Contributing Member

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    That’s going to vary. Thinking in terms of 6 month increments is helpful. Although I’ve been pleasantly surprised before.
     
  7. noelf2

    noelf2 Member

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    Gary Barnes (Hoof Hearted) fit a new barrel on a ROA for me a few months ago. Turn around was only about 40 days if I recall correctly. Quality work and cost was very reasonable.
     
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  8. PowderMark

    PowderMark Member

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    In response to Outlaw Kid’s offer to tune a gun for “honest feedback”, I sent him my Uberti 1860 army. He received it today and immediately responded to me with good questions. All good so far.
     
  9. Mike OTDP

    Mike OTDP Member

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    Never ask a gunsmith that question. That goes double for black powder smiths, they're a notoriously cranky lot.
     
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  10. PowderMark

    PowderMark Member

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    Just got my gun back, feels great. He only had it 24 hours. The stock gun was very unreliable with snapping caps. He put a new spring in and the hammer drops with authority now. Action is smooth and trigger is very light. Can’t wait to try it at the range. I’ll attach a pic of the new cap post and action shield.
    0DC84430-EF97-47CB-9D90-6A7C6720A1DE.jpeg
     
  11. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    Now that's what I call quick turnaround! Good on you Kid!

    Regards,

    Jim
     
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  12. SlowFuse

    SlowFuse Member

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    Is the cap post/shield modification just a colt thing?
     
  13. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    AFAIK it is.
    The Dance revolver is basically a modified Colt 1860 frame so I suppose there's that, but it's a pretty reliable gun as it is.
     
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  14. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Mr. Powdermark, thanks for the kind remarks and for allowing me to work on your gun. I have mainly worked piettas but you gave me the opportunity to work up an uberti. The gun was pretty well timed so all i had to do was slick up the internals, put in a 2 piece wire spring bolt and trigger set up, polish and lower the cam, change the main spring, lighten the tension on the hand spring, add a cap post and hammer sheild thing to keep fouling and cap fragments out that MIGHT get past the cap post (the hammer sheild keeps out any cap fragments from jamming up the internals). I tested it with remington caps... and you shouldnt have a problem since those dont really explode into pieces but break up into a "petal". I would have worked on it and made it a lighter hammer spring pull but Mark didnt mind the stock hammer i installed..although the wire spring set up removed a whole lot of tension and friction on the internals. The trigger pull is light with no creep. I really hope you enjoy the work Mark.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
  15. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Mr.expat alaska...thank you for the kudos. Also forgot to mention the thanks to Mark (mr.powdermark) for taking the chance on me and letting me work his gun being that i dont have a solid...or any..reputation for my work yet. Very grateful. Also mike from goons...he has guided me on many questions and troubleshooting and has been a a great help on my quest to fine tune guns. If anyone else is interested lemme know.
     
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  16. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Works on all open tops...not all guns have the cap jam issue but it doesnt hurt to have the insurance. Cap post is the insurance of keeping caps out of the hammer slot...but the hammer sheild is almost a 100% guarantee of keeping cap fragments and fouling out of the guns innards. I hate when cap fragments fall through the hammer slot and jam up the hammer/bolt/hand and also how dirty the insides get with fouling especially primer fouling that contains lead build up...so i install the sheild for those reasons. Any open top can benefit from a cap post and sheild i suppose
    I dont see remingtons needing a cap post...although i guess a cap sheild at the hammer can be installed.
     
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  17. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    The shield works great on Remington's as well as cartridge guns!

    Mike
     
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  18. SlowFuse

    SlowFuse Member

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    Thanks for the replies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  19. SlowFuse

    SlowFuse Member

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    @TheOutlawKid you mentioned you usually work Piettas but this was an Uberti. Do you care to say between the two if there's anything that stands out quality or finish-wise on internals as better or worse between the two?

    I just got an Uberti back from one of the previously mentioned guys in this thread (2nd post) and from what he said he likes working on Ubertis out of those two manufacturers. Not sure if that pertains to a specific model revolver or across the board.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  20. foureyeshenry

    foureyeshenry Member

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    Holland (not Michigan ;-)
    I'm thinking to change from Frontier Cartridge to Frontiersman and I really like the 1851.
    I'll do my own gunsmithing on them (if I do change, that is) and found a lot of information over the years, but not really about the shield...
    Can someone tell me something about it, how it is placed in the gun and so on...
    I'm in Europe so sending something somewhere isn't an option ;-)
     
  21. grter

    grter Member

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    Some observations gleaned from here and there. These concern current production only. Older pre cnc machine models do not count as far as this is concerned

    Pietta Remington new model army cocking the hammer feels like pulling back a strong slingshot. The looser tolerances can be felt and distinct high pitched clicks can be heard. Tactile isolation from the action is greater on the Pietta. The Pietta despite having neat looks tight cylinder lockup and flawless function was not perfect. The hand was as hair away from locking the cylinder in a position that made ramming a projectile undoable when in half cock so care had to be taken to not rotate it that tiny bit past ramrod alignment. I understand not all of them are like that.

    The Uberti Remington feels precise, cocking the hammer back feels much smoother and is a little easier. The clicks heard are lower pitched like with a clunking sound. The action of the lock work can be felt in a good smooth way (mechanism feel.) Cylinder lockup is tight like the Pietta. On half cock there is plenty of wiggle room to turn and align a chamber under the loading plunger before the hand engages and locks it from going backwards.

    Cylinder locking latch on pietta is alright but is unfinished and a little raw looking. Uberti cylinder latch is blued and looks precisely finished. It also costs more than the Pietta part. The Uberti hand is also ALL blued. It looks precise and has a small portion removed from the front edge of one side. 2 Uberti hands I saw looked exactly alike. They cost more too. The Pietta hand is unfinished and looks alright but not as good as the Uberti. The cylinder locking latch and trigger spring on the Uberti is all blued and generally just looks better than the Piettas unfinished bare metal spring. Yes the Uberti part costs more. Hammer spring on Uberti is all blued, flatter and less stiff yet good enough to hit the caps hard. Pietta spring is not as flat in fact it's easy to see it's thicker, unfinished, and feels stiffer.

    Current Uberti Remington blued frames are made of forged steel (Uberti Stainless is cast) which is a plus. Front sight on Uberti is dovetailed rather than press fitted or soldered. This is a big plus if you want to adjust or replace it and don't have the tools to silver solder if unable to press fit due to wear or other. The loading lever catch is also dovetailed.

    Piettas regular models are all cast steel as far as I know with press fit or soldered ??? front sights and loading lever catch.

    As far as I am concerned both Pietta and Uberti, current models of course, are good but Uberti is better quality.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  22. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    The latest production Pietta Remingtons also have a dovetailed front site.
    They were press fit until recently.
     
  23. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Im just more familiar with pietta..and i found them to have more space and larger moving parts. Ubertis were very fine...like the bolt arms were thinner which helps take tension off the internals. All in all it was similar although i feel that piettas main springs are of better quality and able to be tuned easier for me..sometimes ubertis are just too light. Basically ubertis just have tighter work area cuz it "felt" smaller working inside of it. Ubertis finish was great tho..they color case harden the lever arm and all the other small parts just like pietta etc onoy pietta has a duller CCH paint scheme on the other parts aside from the frame which they do finish really well. The uberti parts felt a lil more delicate...but thats just because i wasn't used to them yet. Piettas parts are thick and feel indestructible...they make really great quality internal parts...they just have to be tweaked a little more i suppose. Its hard to describe without showing you what i mean lol. I could care less that uberti blues their bolt and hand etc because those parts get polished anyways. Piettas bolts and hands are great quality as well. So theyre similar but at the same time both have their quality features. I do very much like that piettas arbors come almost perfect from factory.
     
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  24. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Also im no where near a master gun tuner like Mike from Goons and i know he prefers the uberti parts/guns...so im sure he can chime in on the quality better than i can especially since hes worked all kinds from different eras. Like when i talk to him he tells me about certain parts from other older manufacturers and how they were different or how certain parts were just unworkable etc. He has a deep treasure trove of knowledge...so when he speaks i listen and dont question since hes been there and done that a atleast a dozen times over. So im not sure if i can make a fair assessment of uberti vs. Pietta until ive handled and worked more ubertis. It could be im a bit biased when it comes to pietta as they were my "first love" so to speak and its what i cut my teeth on ya know...and its familiar to me. For all i know ill be all about ubertis the more i work on them. Im just very thankful and grateful that Mikes from Goons has always been there to help guide ans help me and that mr.powdermark took a chance on me when i have no credit to my name.
     
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  25. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Appreciate the kudos kid!!
    As far as the parts comparison, the thickness is more the reason for tuning. The idea is for the specific parts to be able to do their job more efficiently and not hinder the operation of other parts. An example is the left bolt arm. It needs to be strong in the vertical plane but very limber in its horizontal movement. This allows more available mainspring power to be used for ignition instead of it being used to push a too thick bolt arm past a too tall cam (a top reason for ftf for cap guns).
    The "finished" action parts in the Uberti are produced to a more correct configuration as evidenced by the thinner left bolt arm compared to the equally thick arms of the Pietta. It just means more work goes into tuning the Pietta parts than the Uberti. The "more correct" parts contributes to the more refined feeling of the Uberti when compared to other makes. Of course, at the end of the day, all "tuned" revolvers should feel like a million bucks if the tuner does his job!!

    Mike
     
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