C93 Range Report, we got problems

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Yes this is from a new gun, its called the C93 Sporter from Century Arms. Yes I know Century Arms is known for some faulty products. I have owned CAI products before and never had problems.

Detail: Today I figured Id go out and put some rounds through my new C93 I bought myself for christmas. About 4 out of the first 10 rounds were fail to eject, mixed with fail to load (as the bolt was getting stuck on the new round crunching it into the side of the receiver and mangling the shell casing). The next 50 rounds were hit and miss with the last 100 going alot smoother (I was making it through full 10 rounds with occasionally 1 FTE. Every FTE looked the same, split shell casing and mangled pretty bad where the casing necks down. Most of the FTE's would cause a fail to load but at the end it wasnt mangling the shell casing, just hanging up.

Ive never seen or delt with something like this before, but a guy at the range suggested trying steel cased surplus .223 - he loaned me 10 rounds and I never had a misfire, although I did have a double fire LOL

The steel casings were still getting some of the scoring on the casing but they held up alot better (I also noticed the steel was getting thrown further away and always in the same direction, as opposed to the brass casings getting thrown every which way, sometimes just falling out)

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So is this a matter of breaking in, bad ammo, or junk gun.

Video Update: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf-Vyqqgig4
 
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Good grief, I've never seen cases so mangled like that before.

The lines along the cases are interesting. The cases are obviously getting mashed up worse than the Broncos' defense, and I wonder whether they are getting simply getting smashed inside the receiver (or possibly not being fully extracted before being mashed and extracted), or could there be a problem with the chamber dimensions?

Sorry about your problems with the new gun, I hope that you can send it back to Century. I sure would!
 
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The lines along the cases are interesting.
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This is an HK type rifle with a fluted chamber, so it makes those long longitudinal lines that look weird. I don't know much about the mangling of the rest of the case,
 
Yeah thats what I gathered as well, the chamber is fluted like that. What Im wondering = is that normal for casings to get scored inside the chamber or is something wrong. The guy at the range (same one who gave me the steel .223) thought it could be the recoil spring slamming the round home too hard, but I dont see why this would cause some a malfunction as this. Its as if the round is getting sliced to shreds everytime.

To answer the question, I cleaned and oiled the C93 very well before the fire. It was arguably wet with gun oil, as I know .223's like it that way.
 
Something is definitely extemely wrong looks like to me. I wouldn't fire it again until the chamber and throat are cast to check for dimension.
 
I'm not an HK expert but I'm suspecting that you have two problems:

The rifle is 'unlocking' (bolt moving) early. The brass looks stretched near the head which is usually a sign of excess head space. The unsupported brass then blows out into the flutes of the chamber.

The collapsed cases look like they're getting rammed into something: either the trunnion or the side of the ejection port. Could be linked to the early bolt movement.

Can you measure the bolt gap? Do you have headspace gages? What size rollers are in the bolt head?

I wouldn't be shooting that rifle anymore until it's fixed. You're playing with 50k psi gas inches from your face. I think the steel was better as the steel is just stronger than brass. BSW
 
As a matter of fact I did do a bolt gap measurment, as Id heard rumors and horror stories of these coming with out of spec bolts. The bolt gap is nothing, I used a set of feeler gauges and couldnt find any gap between the carrier and the bolt when depressed (rollers locked). As for the rollers, they are whatever came with it, not sure what size.

Im not going to waste any time with this rifle, AimSurplus is getting a call tomorrow. Im disappointed - my first bad gun buy.
 
As I recall no bolt gap is BAD on HK roller locked weapons. I think it can be adjusted by swapping rollers.

OTOH, I'd send it back if it was mine too.

BSW
 
Yes, no bolt gap is very bad. Call AIM. If you want another check Henderson Defense. They test fire all of their C93s before shipping.
 
IIRC, HK roller delayed blow back or whatever its called don't behave well with underpowered ammo. What was the brass cased ammo you were shooting?
 
Yes, no bolt gap is very bad. Call AIM. If you want another check Henderson Defense. They test fire all of their C93s before shipping.
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Give Henderson Defense a call. The guys over there are really knowledgable and always willing to help out. They are regular posters over on AR15.com in the Nevada Hometown forum.
I would also try posting the photos you have over on HKPro.com. Someone there should have a definite idea of what is going on.
 
USA ammo? Are those reloads? That could be a source of the problems, crappy brass. Mil spec brass cases and steel cases usually deform less in my PTR-91.

0 bolt gap I think equals excessive headspace in this system. Like someone else pointed out the brass maybe stretching due to head space and blowing out around the flutes.

The fluting could be cut too deep, I mean I've never seen a case butterfly open like that and not kaboom.

Or it could be all 3. Dang, if you were shooting steel case you'd never known about this potential kaboom until it went. I'll never buy a CAI built gun and will look real hard at their imports.
 
USA ammo? Are those reloads? That could be a source of the problems, crappy brass. Mil spec brass cases and steel cases usually deform less in my PTR-91.
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That's what I was thinking. I seem to recall hearing never run commercial (hunting?) ammo through a CETME because the brass was too soft to handle the extraction. Case head seperations and such. I wonder if the USA brass is having some form of similar reaction in the C93 - but smashing the neck instead of seperating?
 
These are not reloaded, they are sold by the box of 50, new condition 55 grain (as in never used). I got the word from the lady working at USA Ammo, this is the same ammo the US Government buys out, which is why they are not always selling to the public (She said when the government starts making their big buys, they cut back on public sale because the gov takes everything) That being said, I also agree the brass casing is more likely to deform under great pressure, but to explode like that?? The steel casings were also getting roughed up - I really think something is wrong with the weapon.
 
I did a little quick search for this USA ammo. They sell 3 55gr flavors: two that use once fired brass (read: reloads) and one that uses new Lake City brass. I have no doubt they would have trouble getting new LC brass at times because LC is running at capacity. Either way they roll their own and sell it; not that there's anything wrong with that.

They're using LC brass with their new stuff and probably a mix of LC and WCC in their once fired. That's usually pretty good brass. I think it's a gun issue too, just WOW. I'd keep those cases and post pictures the next time someone ask how hard the HK system is on brass :D
 
No brass for you

My G-3 has never been able to shoot brass.I changed the rollers and locking piece,but it still ripped brass into.I am now reserved to steel case only,but have never had a problem since switching.good luck with your new toy
 
Looks like the flutes may be cut deeper and/or the chamber is too big toward the front. My G-3, like all of them, leaves pretty good striations in the case that make reloading pretty much impossible. But I've never seen the kind of brass destruction you've got going on.

Also, I have always been under the impression that steel cased ammo was a no-no in HK rifles specifically because of the fluting???
 
Firing suppressed out of my Vector 51 (with more backchamber pressure than any stock system) I've never seen brass that mangled.

Even the mighty 51 only scores cases with flute marks, I've never seen the folk art case effect on a HK before.
 
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