Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
I daresay you'd be happier with a plague of locusts: no less expensive, probably, but considerably more useful and likeable.
CA congressman takes $2.4m in Bribes
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I daresay you'd be happier with a plague of locusts: no less expensive, probably, but considerably more useful and likeable.
Waitone
Member
Just listened to a sound clip of Cunningham's 'fessup. He said he wanted to make amends and the first step is coming clean.
I'd like to suggest if he really wanted to make amends he could write a how-to manual detailing what is it about DC that makes even the most honorable souls "go native." Perhaps he could discuss "guided investments" and how it is first term electees' personal wealth increases something like 20% vs 10% of your average citizen. Maybe he could talk about how it is committee chairmen of special committees seem to have no trouble in accumulating lots of wealth. Maybe he could provide a little clarification as to the real reasons why congress does nothing about illegal immigration. Maybe he could write a chapter on how the lobblying works in DC. How is it industry representatives get face time yet Joe and Martha Sixpack gets patted on the head and told to move on. Talk a little about how jobs after congress work out. What role does think tanks play. Maybe he could explain why it is we can change parties in control yet nothing changes except the velocity at which we approach the cliff.
Yea, there is a lot Cunningham could make right with a simple book.
I'd like to suggest if he really wanted to make amends he could write a how-to manual detailing what is it about DC that makes even the most honorable souls "go native." Perhaps he could discuss "guided investments" and how it is first term electees' personal wealth increases something like 20% vs 10% of your average citizen. Maybe he could talk about how it is committee chairmen of special committees seem to have no trouble in accumulating lots of wealth. Maybe he could provide a little clarification as to the real reasons why congress does nothing about illegal immigration. Maybe he could write a chapter on how the lobblying works in DC. How is it industry representatives get face time yet Joe and Martha Sixpack gets patted on the head and told to move on. Talk a little about how jobs after congress work out. What role does think tanks play. Maybe he could explain why it is we can change parties in control yet nothing changes except the velocity at which we approach the cliff.
Yea, there is a lot Cunningham could make right with a simple book.
HankB
Member
When guys like this are caught it's usually because, drunk with arrogance from their own sense of self-importance, they figure they're untouchable.
So they buy yachts and Rolls-Royces . . . on a congressional salary.
News reports say this guy is facing 10 years in prison . . . I say he should serve 10 years in prison, as should the crooks who bribed him.
And the contractors who were involved ought to be banned from all business, direct or indirect, with the Federal government for 10 years, too.
One more thing . . . corruption in politics is like an iceberg - even with all you can see, 90% will never see the light of day.
So they buy yachts and Rolls-Royces . . . on a congressional salary.
News reports say this guy is facing 10 years in prison . . . I say he should serve 10 years in prison, as should the crooks who bribed him.
And the contractors who were involved ought to be banned from all business, direct or indirect, with the Federal government for 10 years, too.
One more thing . . . corruption in politics is like an iceberg - even with all you can see, 90% will never see the light of day.
Leatherneck
Member
I agree. The only two questions now are:Old NFO said:Good point Waitone- Duke "got away" with a lot because of the Cross and being an Ace, problem was, he didn't know when to stop... I put this one in the same class with Pro athletes "Whatta you mean, the law applies to me?" I'm "special"... NOT
1. How much time in Club Fed?
2. When does the wife leave him?
I don't believe blatant corruption like this is widespread; the others are much more subtle. I hate to say it, but look at all the porkbarrel spending that gets hung on any appropriations bill available and tell me that isn't cut from the same cloth as this.
TC
One of Many
Member
Does this conviction for bribery in office nullify his pension from the US (congressional and/or military)? If it doesn't, it should. The people/companies that provided the bribes should also be convicted, and lose all government contracts, plus pay fines, and serve prison time.
The plea agreement says that Cunningham's federal pension is at risk. I doubt they would touch it though. Wouldn't want to see a Navy Cross awardee living in a cardboard box under a bridge someplace.
That said, he will probably spend some time in Club Fed while pulling down $200,000 a year.
That said, he will probably spend some time in Club Fed while pulling down $200,000 a year.
Sindawe
Member
Just my opinion...
Cunningham's military pension should be left alone unless evidence is found the he violated his oath while serving.
Congressional pension should be forfeit, since he's admitted to violating the trust placed in him by his constituency.
Cunningham's military pension should be left alone unless evidence is found the he violated his oath while serving.
Congressional pension should be forfeit, since he's admitted to violating the trust placed in him by his constituency.
Old Dog
Member
I have only two words to offer toward a solution for corruption in Congress:
TERM LIMITS
Perhaps if newly elected representatives and senators knew going in that they'd have only a couple terms to serve (and really, why would we need someone in the Senate more than 6 years -- let's limit them to one term, reps to two) they'd spend more time attempting to confront the actual problems of this country and enacting meaningful legislation (but only if there's a need for legislation) -- rather than spending their time in D.C. making the connections to set up their personal fortunes or post-Congress careers ...
Term limits might weed out most professional politicians, perhaps even giving the country someone in Congress who goes to Washington to make a difference ... Or maybe not.
I agree with those who say Duke should keep his military retirement. He can forfeit his Congressional pension ... As a career Navy man (one who formerly lived in Duke's district), I can only say, 'tis a sad and disappointing end to a man who once served his country with honor.
TERM LIMITS
Perhaps if newly elected representatives and senators knew going in that they'd have only a couple terms to serve (and really, why would we need someone in the Senate more than 6 years -- let's limit them to one term, reps to two) they'd spend more time attempting to confront the actual problems of this country and enacting meaningful legislation (but only if there's a need for legislation) -- rather than spending their time in D.C. making the connections to set up their personal fortunes or post-Congress careers ...
Term limits might weed out most professional politicians, perhaps even giving the country someone in Congress who goes to Washington to make a difference ... Or maybe not.
I agree with those who say Duke should keep his military retirement. He can forfeit his Congressional pension ... As a career Navy man (one who formerly lived in Duke's district), I can only say, 'tis a sad and disappointing end to a man who once served his country with honor.
Just another example of why politicians spend millions to get elected to a job that pays a small fraction of that.
10 years in club fed for 2.4 million? I'll bet he will be living/eating better than me in there!
He should get 50 years in a state pen for 2.4 million!!!
10 years in club fed for 2.4 million? I'll bet he will be living/eating better than me in there!
He should get 50 years in a state pen for 2.4 million!!!
Except it isn't a pension - especially not so for retired officers. Legally it is more of a retainer. That status may change around age 65 or so - I'm not sure about that but believe it does. Until a certain age a retired military person can be called back at anytime. I knew two Chief Petty Officers who were called back in the early 80's. One was a 24 year guy when he retired and the other a 30 year guy.
In any even as a convicted felon he violated the oath he took when he became an officer in the military and the oath he took as a congressman. Regardless of his courage and service while serving (and Duke Cunningham was a true hero in Vietnam by any definition of the word) he's a
disgrace now. He's a criminal - and one more vile than just your typical burglar. He stole from the people of the United States - all of us are victims.In a way he reminds me of Pete Rose - only on a much larger scale.
The guy had everything... A successful military career and 8 terms in Congress - I can't imagine what would drive him to taking bribes - just can't figure it. :banghead:
Sindawe
Member
I can, and can sum it up in one word. Greed. One of those "darker" impulses most of us have. However, most of us learn to control that impulse early in life.
Sindawe said:
You got that right. Pure greed and corruption by power. He's a well known Vietnam fighter ace and Congressman. He could make big bucks just in speaking engagements and selling stuff on his website. Guess it wasn't enough. STUPID.
Spiggy
Member
money is a powerful thing, and with it, is capable of doing anything it so sees fit. Dont blame himitgoesboom said:It's a shame.
Duke was the first (only?) American Ace in Vietnam. I was really hoping that such an American hero wasn't capable of this.
I.G.B.
Camp David
member
WT said:
Why? Because he admitted he took bribes? That makes him the only HONEST Representative in Washington! I recommend we make him a shining example and give him a medal for his honesty!
Big deal... he took a couple million in graft... in Washington that makes him a beginner!
xd9fan
Member
term limits term limits term limits term limits term limits term limits term limits
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
The Bible is often misquoted as saying that "money is the root of all evil." That is not correct. It says "the love of money is the root of all evil." Big difference. As noted, it is the control of our impulses that separates us from criminals and other scum of the earth.
SteveKompier
Member
He was my Congressman when I lived in San Diego. He is a HUGE supporter of the 2A and it's a shame that he did this, I really liked him. He did the right thing and resigned.
Sindawe
Member
Looks like a slap on the wrist for Cunningham.
I'm not really surprised by this, but I'd hoped it would be otherwise.
I'm not really surprised by this, but I'd hoped it would be otherwise.
saltydog
Member
Goes to show you that a Congress Critter's salary ain't the reason most people become politicians. It's what goes on "behind the scenes" that really turns them on.
MudPuppy
Member
There is too much power too far away. We need to strip the Fed Gov of its bloated budget and power and put much, much more of that at the State and (even better) local levels. As it is, the Feds are gouging us for trillions of dollars each year in taxes--and STILL can't pay their bills.
Hate to see Cunningham in the middle of a mess like this (granted, it was his own doing) but I'll tell you, if Duke was doing this, they are ALL doing it. Or, at least the majority.
Problem is, we have to many politicians in office and not enough citizens.
"I'm not Anti-American, but I think my government is."
Hate to see Cunningham in the middle of a mess like this (granted, it was his own doing) but I'll tell you, if Duke was doing this, they are ALL doing it. Or, at least the majority.
Problem is, we have to many politicians in office and not enough citizens.
"I'm not Anti-American, but I think my government is."
rock jock
Member
You know this as a fact, or is this just pure conjecture, kinda like "all gun owners are a bunch of racist lunatics?"
TonkinTwentyMil
Member
--------------------HankB said:
Hank B's pretty dead-on here.
As a Vietnam era Navy aviation contemporary of Randy Cunningham, I feel great personal disappointment in this case. It's nothing less than a towering personal tragedy.
Randy ably served a very-Republican district in San Diego County (i. e., bullet-proof) for many years, and he certainly was a solid friend of the Second Amendment. That cannot be taken away from his resume.
I know well the kind of competitive aggressiveness, courage, and professional dedication required to accomplish what he did over North Vietnam's brutally unforgiving skies. The wash-out rate along the trail to becoming a Navy F-4 fighter pilot back then was steep, the accident rate was grim, the mental and physical demands were incessant, and those who survived (the training, the grueling flight schedules, AND the hostile fire) were not the kind of homogenized, politically correct, "sensitive" men that today's feminized culture finds admirable.
The early chapters of the Duke Cunningham story are memorialized in one of TV's "Military Channel" fine documentaries about the Vietnam air war. THAT is the "Duke" I'd like to remember.
Because Randy survived ungodly flak, hordes of deadly SAMS, being shot down (and recovered), triumphed being jumped by multiple MiGs, saved his fellow airmen, and became an "Ace", he was a genuine hero. I suspect all that contributed to his sense of being bullet-proof, too. A popular squadron ready-room poster at the time read:
"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I am the Meanest Mother in the valley."
Indeed, that mindset made for some incredibly heroic aviator-warriors back then. It still applies to modern warfare. The trick is to buffer it with good judgement and situational awareness when moving into today's complex, hyper-politicized business and government worlds where numerous "traps" await any mis-step. That's where Duke stumbled.
Randy Cunningham earned the respect and political authority he wielded as a congressman. Regrettably, he misjudged that power as absolute -- and tolerant of serious ethical transgressions -- and he abused it. He's not alone. Sadly, I've seen that pattern (via a ring-side seat) play out, time and again, with Republicans and Democrats (see the S&L crisis and the "Keating Five" senators, circa 1990). I've also been on the receiving end of power-abusing politicians' games on behalf of Fat-Cat contributors who play rough to get their way. And that is a huge reason I'll affirm that the Second Amendment ain't about duck hunting, folks, because street-punks ain't the only "muggers" out there.
Absolute power reallly does corrupt... absolutely.
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