Ca legal Ar

[Sgt Stevo]

Whats the best ca legal Ar type rifle. I heard there was a pump and a break open. And if you guys know, Whats the price range. Thanks

 

[SoCalGeek]

I don't know too much about the Pump one you mentioned, as i've never heard of them before. As for the break open model, the FAB-10 made by Shoeless Ventures, i understand that the only difference between it and a normal AR series is that the magazine is fixed inside the receiver, and that it loads with stripper clips. Unless the price difference is huge, i'd go for the FAB since that means you can probably use mostly standard AR parts to customize the rifle how you want it. Prices seem to range from high 200s to mid 300s for the stripped receiver only. After some research, i can't find anything on the pump AR you mentioned. I did find, however, that DPMS makes a single shot one. The receivers go for just under 200 bucks on Gunbroker. Hope that information will be of some use

 

[GrayBear]

CA Legal?

Per my local gunsmith/FFL dealer up here in the CA Sierra Nevada foothills the only CA legal semi-auto factory-made .223 is the Ruger Mini-14. Knowing him as I do, I'll be checking further as he tends to push what he has in stock!

The FAB-10 has a pistol grip and to my knowledge any pistol grip or even thumbhole stock is illegal.

I've been thinking of getting one of the Mini-14's or a Ranch-30 in order to use the cheap surplus M-16 ammo or, in the Ranch model, the AK rounds I find at gun shows.

I'd have to do more research before I spent $$$$ on either, but I'm leaning toward the Mini-14. I'd like the pump if there is one. CA's politicians may try to outlaw autoloaders according to our local State Senator who is strongly pro-gun.

Hope someone has more definite info on your question as I'll be watching the answers myself.

GrayBear

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Ask El Rojo.....

He just made a nice looking CA legal AR clone using a FAB-10.

PS. The detachable magazine is fake.

 

[chink]

I think that the FAB-10 is legal because you are allowed 1 "evil" feature on a semi auto centerfile rifle.

I also remember reading a lot time ago (SB23 time frame) that AR patterned receivers were no longer allowed

 

[Chuck Jennings]

The FAB-10 has a pistol grip and to my knowledge any pistol grip or even thumbhole stock is illegal.

These features are only illegal in guns that have detachable magazines. This is why you see some of these AR and FAL variants with fixed magazines.

The Kel Tec SU-16 is legal in CA b/c it accepts detachable mags but does not have a pistol grip. It is a choice to look into as well, as it uses the cheap AR mags you have had in your garage since 1999.



edited for spelling

 

[Sven]

I recommend the FAB-10 route. If you leave the state, just buy a new ("real") lower.

Mini-14 is very reliable, can be tuned and tricked out:
http://ruger-mini-14-firearms.com/ruger_mini_prices.html

SU-16 shows a lot of potential, two buddies have them and get 1-2 MOA. Optic rail affords fun customization. My instance (SN#81) is having some feeding issues with certain AR magazines, but works well with the factory mags. Kel-Tec customer service has been top notch from all accounts - need to give them a call.

 

[artherd]

The FAB-10 is IMMUNE to all CA and FEDERAL AWB laws!

This is so because of it's *fixed* magazine of 10 rounds.

So, one can have a flash hider, telescoping stock, bayo lug, etc.

To re-load, you have to pull a disassembly pin, rotate the upper out of the way, and insert rounds. It's better than nothing, but guarenteed to piss you off.

The Kel-Tec SU-16 definately looks intresting, and takes the legal (had since '99) 30 round AR mags.

 

[Harry Tuttle]

DPMS makes the Panther pump AR
http://www.dpmsinc.com/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=RFA2-PU
MSRP $1,695.00
http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?A...PU&PHPSESSID=3a573b272dd1af8434831e6edc9a818f

Price:
$1302.00

DPMS currently has a single shot too
http://www.dpmsinc.com/specialty_rifles.html

 

[marklbucla]

According to Artherd, there is also another option for you in .22LR. Vulcan Arms makes one with a standard .223 lower but with a .22LR upper and mags. It appears that it would be legal, but the law is a tad ambiguous.

Edit: Oh, also, you could just wait a little while to see what will happen with the new AW reform in the next couple of months or so. I'm hoping to get a 9mm AR-15, but I don't know if that would be a possibility because I haven't seen any 10 round mags for it.

 

[Sgt Stevo]

WOW! You guys know your @#$%

Thanks HR. I will probly get the fixed mag one. thanks for the pics and web sites.

 

[marklbucla]

Are you sure you don't want to wait a little while and see what happens with the AW bill?

 

[artherd]

The nice thing with the AR is, you can just get a new lower if things turn out OK.


Mark- the issue with the Vulcan is definately ambigious.

However as for your magazine issues, one is allowed to "Perminantly Alter" large-capacity mags to fit 10 rounds or less. Welding in a plug would be an acceptable form of perminant alteration. Best to do this before crossing back into CA state lines...


12020.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

 

[Sgt Stevo]

bill

Will the Assault weapons bill make a difference in our republic of liberal wankers ?

 

[Prof]

"Are you sure you don't want to wait a little while and see what happens with the AW bill?"

Unfortunately, even if the bill sunsets, it will have no effect for those of us in California. Our laws will remain unchanged and mags with +10 capacity and all the "assault rifles" will still be banned.

 

[marklbucla]

You're thinking of the federal AWB. I was referring to AB 2218

 

[Prof]

You are right. I am not aware of 2218. Does it provide something hopeful?

 

[ScottS]

From CRPA

AB2218 would amend the Roberti-Roos "assault weapon" ban so that all named rifles would be legal with 10 round magazines. This would *not* affect already registered "assault rifles" and their hi-cap magazines. This bill will be voted on by the Assembly Public Safety Committee on April 20th...

Scott

 

[Norman Dog]

"Assault Weapons" ID Guide

In order to answer all of those questions on the confusing, convoluted California laws regarding so-called assault weapons, the Golden State has provided this handy 96-page guide in PDF format:

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

There is also a guide to California fiearms laws in general here:

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/cfl.pdf

Enjoy!

 

[Prof]

"all named rifles would be legal with 10 round magazines"

ScottS: Does that mean 10-round "fixed" magazines like the FAB-10? (Norman: thanks for the references but I didn't want to wade through all that legalize if someone else already knew the answer. )

 

[TCD]

Prof, the way I understand it, is that AR-15s with detachable magazines, as well as any other assault rifle will be legal only so far as if you have 10 rnd magazines. So, ar-15s, ak clones, etc will be legal again as long as the 10 rnd detachable issue is followed.


This would be freaking great for me. I want to bring my SAR1 down from AK.

 

[Norman Dog]

Here is the actual text (emphases added by me):

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276 (this is the section that names particular firearms as evil),"assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

This can be found on Page 71 of the assault weapons ID guide. The guide is much easier to read and understand than the Penal Code itself and it is easier to find subjects of interest.

A rifle that is defined as an "assault weapon" on its characteristics in California has to start with a detachable magazine or a fixed mag with a capacity of more than 10 rounds. If the rifle has a fixed mag that can hold 10 rounds or less, it is NOT an "assault weapon" in California and can have all sorts of interesting features like pistol grips and flash suppressors.

While we are on the subject of extra features, there is also a note on Page 71 that says bayonet lugs and bayonets are NOT assault weapon characteristics under California law.

 

[Prof]

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, the bill would not allow detachable mags in "assault" weapons (AR-15's, etc.) but any rifle with a "fixed" 10-round or less mag would be legal. Right? I just can't see the legislature allowing any rifle with a detachable mag that is now banned being legal again. They know that a high-capacity mag can still be used in them. They are ignorant people, but they are not stupid. More's the pity!

 

[Norman Dog]

Scott,

Would AB2218 also do away with the Kasler vs. Lockyer "Category 2" ban nonsense on AK and AR-15 series rifles?

Prof,

I see now that you were asking specifically about AB2218. The law I quoted above is what is currently in place. Sorry if there was any confusion.

 

[TCD]

Prof, Norman posted whats currently in place.

Thus most SKSs as well as the Fab10 etc are perfectly legal to own. However, the new law as I understand it will allow ARs etc with detachable mags AS long as you *only* have 10 rnd or less cap mags.