CA Legal AR's

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glockman19

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I live in CA and want to put together a CA legal AR. Stag Arms is NOT on the CA list I found fixed stock with NO forward or pistol grip. It will have a CA legal mussle break not a flash supressor and a 10 round detachible mag. my question is this:

Would you go Stag upper & lower? Why? Why not? Other options?

I plan on ordering it in the first week of May.
 
I called the CA DOJ and spoke with a field agent. He said the setup I want to put together an off list Stag upper & lower with NO pistol Grip, NO Flash Supressor, NO folding stock was legal. IT can and will have a Muzzle Break and a 10 round removable magazine.
 
you have two options
both need to be with a brand that is not on the list
detatchable mag without any evil features
or
fixed mag with the evil features
 
Because I'm getting a complete Stag Upper & Lower I'll have the pistol grip anyway and I can always add a featur to lock in the mag so it has to be removed with a tool. , one of the reasons for going this route.
 
They have added that magazine locking device to a forbidden list of modifications. Unless the magazine is welded shut you cannot have it.

sorry but that is NOT correct.

glockman19, you have the following options:

I. buy an off-list lower (OLL, not on the CA DOJ banned list)

II. decide which route to go:

1) normal detachable magazine and NO evil features, i.e.
- pistol grip
- thumbhole/folding/telescopic stock
- flash suppressor, grenade launcher or flare launcher
- forward pistol grip

or

2) fixed magazine which can have said evil features but still has to be in compliance with federal law

if you go with option 1), it is helpful to get a MonsterMan Grip. makes for very comfortable shooting.

if you go with option 2), you can fix the magazine either by using a

a) Prince50 Mag-Lock kit which means the mag is fixed and you use an extended take-down pin to break the rifle open and reload the magazine from the top while in the receiver

or

b) a bullet-button mag-lock kit which means the mag requires a tool, such as a bullet as defined by CA law, to remove the mag and replace it with a full one.

both options are in compliance with CA law.

if you haven't done so already, review the california assault weapon faq and then start reading the threads in calguns forum about all this stuff.

to answer your question regarding brands, you're likely to get 100 different answers. everybody has a different combo of lower/uppers, a different upper configuration, different accessories, etc.

you can go stag upper/lower, but you don't have to. one website you may want to check out is del-ton simply because they have a great way of letting you totally customize your rifle kit with the exact parts you want.

another thing you can do is check out this thread of people's CA legal AR configs and figure out what you like.

hope this is helpful. have fun with your AR build. :)
 
crazyXgerman,

Thanks
I'll most likely go with option one but because I can always fix the mag and have added features in the future. I want to leave all options open.

You are correct in your analysis. I will definately be getting a STAG upper & Lower both off list in the #4 setup with 20" barrel. I will definately get the monsterman grip and muzzle break instead of Flash supressor. The pistol grip will be shipped along with rifle but not attached. I will look into the two options for fixing the mag so I have the options to change configurrations in the future as the law allows.

Thank you all for your input.

Glockman19
 
re:crazyxgerman

RE: crazyxgerman

he can do it that way and just hope the DOJ decides to amend the list in which case they will have to register his with all the evil features.


I am going off of this link here. I do not however know if the proposed amendments have been made to this. Which technically if you have an off list lower with all the evil parts, technically does not make it an assault rifle until it becomes a law.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/awnotice1106.php?PHPSESSID=19f6d259a6b3231b8b55efd0ed4a3f62
 
as you mentioned those are a list of proposed regulations not regulations

Category I assault weapons are those specifically named by make and model in Penal Code §12276 (and echoed in California Code of Regulation §979.10). These firearms are assault weapons at even the bare receiver/frame level – regardless of any particular characteristic features. Thus an Uzi receiver would be banned by name, but a similar Group Industries receiver would be legal (as long as offending Category III features were not added).

Category II assault weapons consist of the AR15 and AK “series” of firearms. While AR and AK series were named in the original Roberti-Roos laws, due to various key court decisions about “series” membership it’s useful to refer to them as their own category, those these guns really have just fallen back into the Roberti-Roos list once listed by DOJ.

Category III assault weapons are defined by characteristic features listed in PC 12276.1:



RIFLES:



A semiautomatic centerfire rifle capable of accepting detachable magazines and any of:

▪ a pistol grip protruding conspicuously below the weapon’s action

▪ a thumbhole stock or folding or telescopic stock;

▪ a flash suppressor, grenade launcher or flare launcher;

▪ a forward pistol grip.



A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with overall length of less than 30 inches;

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine holding over 10 rounds
 
SoCalShooter:
he can do it that way and just hope the DOJ decides to amend the list in which case they will have to register his with all the evil features.
DOJ CANNOT amend the list - AB2728 changed the law, effective this year:
SECTION 1. Section 12276.5 of the Penal Code is amended to read:
12276.5. (a) The Attorney General shall prepare a description for
identification purposes, including a picture or diagram, of each
assault weapon listed in Section 12276, and any firearm declared to
be an assault weapon pursuant to this section, and shall distribute
the description to all law enforcement agencies responsible for
enforcement of this chapter. Those law enforcement agencies shall
make the description available to all agency personnel.
(b) (1) Until January 1, 2007, the Attorney General shall
promulgate a list that specifies all firearms designated as assault
weapons in Section 12276 or declared to be assault weapons pursuant
to this section. The Attorney General shall file that list with the
Secretary of State for publication in the California Code of
Regulations. Any declaration that a specified firearm is an assault
weapon shall be implemented by the Attorney General who, within 90
days, shall promulgate an amended list which shall include the
specified firearm declared to be an assault weapon. The Attorney
General shall file the amended list with the Secretary of State for
publication in the California Code of Regulations. Any firearm
declared to be an assault weapon prior to January 1, 2007, shall
remain on the list filed with the Secretary of State.
 
SoCalShooter - Librarian is correct. The DOJ no longer has the authority to amend the list. This is it. There will be no more registration.

The Notice you linked to is as worthless as a used piece of toilet paper. It is NOT a law and therefore legally completely irrelevant. It is simply a sad attempt of the DOJ to scare people.

At this moment, it is really as clearcut as I outlined in my previous post above. As long as you comply with SB23 and PC 12276.1, the actual legal text, you're good.
 
So instead of adding names to the list they are just going to lump them in under evil features?

Correct. The list specified in PC 12276 is final. Whatever is named by make and model in that list cannot be purchased - period. Anything that is not on that list can be purchased but has to be in compliance with SB23, meaning no evil features. To comply with SB23 from now on, you follow the process I described earlier and choose one of the two options.

How do they intend to enforce this?

The same way every law is enforced. You can either comply with the law and be ok, or you can ignore the law and knowingly commit a felony or twelve, and hope you get away with it. Your choice.

How can this possibly be anywhere near legal?

It is legal because we allowed it to become law through the government that we elected.

If you haven't already done so, I encourage you to check out the legal forum over at CalGuns for many, many existing threads on the topic as well as the AR/AK FAQ I linked to earlier. Bill Wiese did an excellent job summarizing the situation.
 
Wait a minute, I thought I had a damn good understanding of this at one point. If this is the case then how to they intend to enforce this? Second how can this possibly be anywhere near legal?


Im afraid I dont quite understand your question if your asking how they can inforce the listed by name
they can just look at the name on the lower reciever witch is legaly the firearm part of the AR

If you are asking how they can inforce the the detachable mag + 1 or more evil feature well they can just look at your gun
 
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