Cali-FAL questions?

[heypete]

Greetings all,

I've got a few questions about the California-legal barf FALs. Note that much of my experience with military rifles are the M16s and M4s that I carried in the army.

* With AR-15 style rifles, the lower receiver is the "gun", while the upper can be switched out, so as to have different types/lengths of barrels and so forth. Is this the case with the FAL?

* How easy would it be to change barrels/"uppers" on a FAL?

* Although the Cali-FAL has a fixed magazine, is it possible to purchase a detachable-magazine "lower" (assuming the lower receiver, if there is such a thing, is where the magazine is located?) for when I move out of the state? An individual at the range indicated that the magazine is merely a 10 round magazine that is inserted, and then the mag-release catch has a spot-welt underneath it, preventing it from being removed. When I leave California, would it be possible to remove the spot-weld and allow the rifle to work with detachable mags?

In short, I'm considering purchasing a FAL, but since I live in California I need to get a Cali-FAL. Rather than spending twice as much money and getting the Cali-FAL now and a regular FAL once I move out of state, I'd like to have one that can be modified once I leave.

Cheers!

 

[Dionysusigma]

With AR-15 style rifles, the lower receiver is the "gun", while the upper can be switched out, so as to have different types/lengths of barrels and so forth. Is this the case with the FAL?
Unfortunately, no. The lower receiver/ FCG/ pistol grip is the "non-firearm" bit, with the upper being the actual component that needs an FFL to transfer.

How easy would it be to change barrels/"uppers" on a FAL?
Not sure, personally.

Although the Cali-FAL has a fixed magazine, is it possible to purchase a detachable-magazine "lower" (assuming the lower receiver, if there is such a thing, is where the magazine is located?) for when I move out of the state?
The mag well is part of the "upper" receiver.

An individual at the range indicated that the magazine is merely a 10 round magazine that is inserted, and then the mag-release catch has a spot-weld underneath it, preventing it from being removed. When I leave California, would it be possible to remove the spot-weld and allow the rifle to work with detachable mags?
As far as I know, yes.

Sorry... I'm a bit more of an AK expert than FAL. Hope this helps, tho.

 

[heypete]

Unfortunately, no. The lower receiver/ FCG/ pistol grip is the "non-firearm" bit, with the upper being the actual component that needs an FFL to transfer.

:banghead:

I was told that there were some people who combined an AR upper and a FAL lower, so it's technically not a firearm. Amusement ensued. Not sure what happened, but I believe it worked all right.

"FCG?"

Also, where does the stock attach? The "upper" or "lower"?

The mag well is part of the "upper" receiver.

Hmm. All right. I can't say that makes much sense to me, having been mostly using M16s, but I would imagine the Belgian's know what they're doing.

As far as I know, yes.

Excellent.

Sorry... I'm a bit more of an AK expert than FAL. Hope this helps, tho.

Not a problem. My "expertise" in firearms is mostly acquired by buying, disassembling and reassembling them. Knowing how each part functions is very important to me. Taking a set of punches and a mallet to my SKS was a rather entertaining (and informative) exercise.

Presumably after getting a FAL, I'll figure all this out.

 

[Dionysusigma]

FCG=Fire Control Group. Trigger, hammer, sear, disconnector, (sometimes) safety, et al. Buttstock attaches to the "lower". Just for the heck of it, I made a little drawing with a pic I took off of DSArms' site to convey the basic breakdown of upper and lower bits. (Sorry the pic is so poorly done, but all the computers have as far as graphic programs go here at the office is MS Paint. :banghead: )

Also, it looks like DSA has a pretty decent selection of CaliFALs, so you shouldn't have to suffer too much. DSA California Models

 

[FALna45]

changing barrels on FALs requires some specific tools (barrel vise, receiver wrench) and (headspace & locking shoulder) gauges to do easily. or read up on the inexpensive (but sometimes iffy) methods.
with the right tools it's a snap, and if you can rebarrel you can BUILD.
i believe you can use a set screw thru the mag release lever as opposed to welding. no need for an extra lower should you change states, just get some 20 rounders and replace the release lever.

 

[Coronach]

I was told that there were some people who combined an AR upper and a FAL lower, so it's technically not a firearm. Amusement ensued. Not sure what happened, but I believe it worked all right.

I think you got told a Old Gunshop Tale. You might be able to ship an AR upper and a FAL lower together, and it might look like a whole gun (in two parts), but combining them together would not work.

Mike

 

[El Rojo]

i believe you can use a set screw thru the mag release lever as opposed to welding.

I don't know about that. I am pretty sure you are not supposed to be able to make it a detachable magazine without having to majorly alter the gun. A simple screw would probably get you in trouble with the CADOJ. I would highly recommend buying a DSA PRK Legal FAL and not screwing with it. If you still want to look at your options, call the DOJ and ask them specifically what you can do and think about getting it in writing.

So is the FAL upper the firearm or the FAL lower? I didn't see a clear answer.

Me personally, I would rather get a M1A if I were going to spend all of that money on a semi-auto .308 in the PRK. The best thing about a FAL over a M1A are the cheap magazines. You don't get that benefit in the PRK. I say buy an M1A and then when you leave the PRK, but a FAL too!!! I just think that is way too much money for a 10 shot stripper fed .308. That is just me.

 

[Trebor]

I don't know about that. I am pretty sure you are not supposed to be able to make it a detachable magazine without having to majorly alter the gun.

My understanding is that the magazine must not be capable of being removed "without tools." You can remove the magazine as part of dissassembling the gun, but it can't be "readily detachable" in the way we usually think of detachable mags.

Then again, I'm not a lawyer and, heck, I'm not even IN California. Check with locals for the real scoop.

 

[heypete]

Dionysusigma, thanks for the excellent image. Even though it was done with MS Paint, it was very informative.

I appreciate everyone's responses here. I had no idea that Cali-FALs were so expensive. Still, I suppose it's better to get the Cali-FAL that is designed to be stripper-clip fed and can be modified to accept detachable magazines with a moderate amount of work once I leave California than the Californiaized AR-15s...it just looks kludgy to have that plate welded over the bottom of the mag well and have to split open the upper and lower just to access the fixed magazine.

I asked the guy selling Cali-ARs at the last show about if it would be possible to change the magazine, or disasemble it to get at the follower, spring, etc. He said "No, but they rarely break anyway...and you could just send it back to us". Uh. No. I want to be able to fully modify my firearms, and I don't trust this company to stay in business forever and be willing to fix my magazines.

My next purchases will probably be in this order:
* CMP Garand
* Another SKS, possibly a Yugo 59 (not 59/66), or similar.
* Cali-FAL, depending on how much I like them in person at the show. It's been a while since I handled one.

It's my impression (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that one can extensively modify (i.e. "mall ninjaize") fixed magazine firearms like the Cali-FAL, as they do not fall under the California AWB. I have no intention of making a Swiss Army Gun, but I would like to have my options open in the future. Is this the case?

 

[El Rojo]

The nice thing about the FAB-10 (PRK AR15) is that once you do leave the state, a new lower is only going to cost you $200, if that! And you could most certainly build a FAB-10 for under a $1000. Again, if you want a good PRK legal detachable magazine .308, why not just buy one of the M1A varients? Either way, stipper clipping rounds into any .308 is cheesy unless you buy an M1 Garand. Now that is a good plan. Get the Garand first.

Really getting a list set up is a good idea, because you are going to buy all of these guns eventually!