Cali Microstamping law

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wilkersk

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So the California Kakistocracy passed their Microstamping law, due to take effect in 2010, as you all know. Besides the easy and obvious ways criminals can defeat this technology, there is one small "what if" I have question about.

Perhaps one of you know the answer. Is there any provision that might limit the ability of someone from reloading a spent casing that already has another firearm's serial number marked on it?

I know I'm gonna get all kinds of responses on this. But, what I'm looking for is a source that addresses this problem. Anyone got a linky?

Could you imagine getting framed up for a crime in this way? I can see some easy manipulation of this law to some evil-doer's advantage.
 
Thanks! That makes sense.
Click to expand...

It makes sense until the tiny raised portions of the firing pin which imprint the unique mark cause it to stick or retreact slower from rounds on occasion, making cycling slightly less reliable and the risk of breaking a firing pin higher.

Firing pins also wear out and break on occasion. Meaning they are replaced. Do they then have to become a controlled object? Will possession of a regular non-microstamping firing pin become the crime of conspiring to circumvent the microstamping of cartridges?
Will firing pins for California customers be tightly controlled?
Will replacements go from being a simple piece of quickly crafted and mass produced metal, to a precision crafted component with unique microscopic numbers matched to the firearm, or registered with the owner and costing more?
Will firing pins eventually have to be transferred through a California FFL, or registered individually (for a fee) when this "flaw" is fixed with new legislation or CADOJ regulation?


A firing pin is a only slightly more complicated than a nail made of quality material. Yet this technology makes it more complex.


Fortunately the entire implementation of the law is on hold until the patent holder of the process no longer holds a monopoly. Which will be some years beyond 2010.

This is probably overshadowed in the minds of Californian gun owners, who just had a bill passed that prohibits the purchase of handgun ammo online. No more good deals.
 
And the scheme will not work unless there's a big book of "this number matches this name."

Which, means what, O our Choir? Come on, we know the verse that goes here.

Not like the tv shows, where a glance at a bit brass allows them to aver "This was fired from a Kel-tech carbine left handed at 3 in the study by the professor . . . "

Love the bit in the study where it would only "cost" $8 per firing pin. That had to be from someone who has never run actual machine parts up from scratch (or priced ceramet machine parts). I'm guessing that the professors used an assumption of changing all firing pins, and not just the ones going to Kali.

Makes me wonder. CA is strapped for cash. They could "sell" state licencing to CA gunsmiths to either make or install firing pins.

Oops, just thought of a fly for that ointment, imagine a ceramet firing pin in a Raven or Jennings?

Hey, CA probably ought to make it against the law to not empty your brass out if you use a revolver criminally.
 
So...in a Revolver...a Firing Pin which 'marks the primer', marks-the-primers in Cartridge Cases which remain typically in the Revolver, anyway...to be discarded at liesure, or, re-loaded...or, which if ejeted by most Target Shooters, go into a Pocket, anyway...


Or...anyone with a fine File or Abrasive Paper, could convert a marking-Firing-Pin, to, one which is merely 'round-nosed', and non-marking...in a few minutes.


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh...yeeeeeeeeesh...


All these government schemes at every turn anymore, trying to force people to buy products or services no one wants, or totally grifting versions of services people may want, for special interest lobbies who have paid politicians to favor it.


How horrid and shameful...puhhhhhhhh-tooooooey...
 
Just a great idea. So hard to defeat!!!! HHUMMMM! Let's see.


OH, I know. Let's drive over to Reno or Las Vegas to a gun show and buy a new firing pin and swap them out.......

Those politicians you Kalif. people insist on electing are so brilliant
 
I believe that the notion is that the law will NOT go into force, due to the clause in it that states the technology must be common and free of intellectual property (patent) encumberances. Since that was not, and remains not, the case - the law should die on the day that it becomes active.
 
As rbernie says:

"I believe that the notion is that the law will NOT go into force, due to the clause in it that states the technology must be common and free of intellectual property (patent) encumberances. Since that was not, and remains not, the case - the law should die on the day that it becomes active."


The State Attorney General (once and future Governor Jerry Brown!) has to certify that the microstamping technology is available to more than one firearms maker "unencumbered of patent restrictions" before the law takes effect. There has not been and will not be such certification in the foreseeable future as the patent owners still want to make some money off of their patents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AB_1471

It's crap technology and doesn't work worth a hoot. As has been suggested in this post the raised marks quickly wear down with use and can be removed with thirty seconds of filing. Even with the best results in testing, marks were often unreadable.

There is no mention in the law about reloading cases, only that the pistol must leave an identifying mark on the casing.

You can forget about this one except as one more example of really bad law that all the gun-control folks feel pretty good about.

ArmedLiberal
 
Note that it's MICROstamping.

can be removed with thirty seconds of filing
Click to expand...

If it takes you 30 seconds, it's because you're being VERY meticulous.:)
 
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There has not been and will not be such certification in the foreseeable future as the patent owners still want to make some money off of their patents.
Click to expand...

Unless the holder of the patent decides some portion of the several million customers of California forced by legislation to use the service is better than none and relinquishes the patent rights early.
They would no longer hold a monopoly, but they would likely make more money with at least a fraction of several million forced customers than no forced customers.

They could give up thier patent rights any year after 2010, and immediately see rapid demand for thier product as millions are forced to comply with the law. They would also be in a better position to rapidly fill demand than competitors for at least a couple years already having all the tooling and machinery.
It could happen overnight, a personal call placed to the Attorney General informing them of the decision to drop patent rights in the coming days, and certification by him within days. Then rapid business even with the loss of thier patents with an immediate several million customer base that must use someone to comply with the law.
Even with just 10% of the market they would make millions more than they are making holding the patent.

Will the technology stop criminals? No. Within a couple years most career criminals will have relayed the information of thier homeboy who is in jail because the technology was used as evidence against them, and most will be taking some seconds with sandpaper or a file to remove the micro stamping form thier STOLEN guns. Then passing along that advice to the next generation of criminals in jail and on the streets.
Of course even finding a microstamped casing from a stolen gun means nothing unless the gun is found. It matches a STOLEN gun, with an unknown owner until then. So even when it manages to work 100% perfectly, the information is useless unless the criminal is caught in possession of the firearm or it can be tied to them.
 
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It makes sense until the tiny raised portions of the firing pin which imprint the unique mark cause it to stick or retreact slower from rounds on occasion, making cycling slightly less reliable and the risk of breaking a firing pin higher.
Click to expand...


I meant, "that makes sense" only in that I couldn't understand how the brass was going to be marked in 2 places by the firing pin.

I do not think that the law itself makes any sense at all. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see California delay the law's enactment due to technology and enforcement problems.
 
AFAIK this is only required to add a new semiauto handgun to the "not unsafe handguns list".

So all existing guns would be grandfathered in.

There's a pending lawsuit challenging the whole "list" as an arbitrary restraint of trade, also AFAIK. So all of this could be overtaken by events.
 
So I suppose that means that every handgun certified as approved for sale in CA must now start all over again?
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No those already on the list will remain there if the company continues to pay thier yearly extortion fee. If they miss an extortion payment however they then must re-qualify under the new requirements.

The majority of pistols on the list currently do not even meet the current requirements to be added to the list. Most do not have a loaded chamber indicator and a magazine disconnect. But they need those to be added to the list.
For example if Glock forgot to pay thier extortion fee for one year, all GLocks would be unable to re-qualify as they do not have a magazine disconnect.

This is gonna be fun.....so what about the Remington ETRONX? The firing pin isn't impact based.....it uses electrical current to ignite a primer.
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I would imagine if the semi-automatic firearm cannot make a mark to be compliant and the technology becomes a requirement, then such firearms would be unable to ever be added to the list or approved firearms.
No conventional electronic ignition system would be able to qualify.
If the design has to be modified in a way that it would leave a detailed mark on the primer, it would negate the purpose of electronic ignition to begin with. And be better off to simply ignite the primer from impact.
 
1. There is language in the law that says it (microstamping) will not be implemented until there are no patent restrictions on the technology (the patents expire sometime around 2025).

2. Handguns already on the CA DOJ approved list, are exempt from the microstamping requirement.

3. A lawsuit has already been filed challenging the legality of the CA DOJ approved list.

4. You can thank SASS (Single Action Shooting Society) and the CRPA (California Rifle & Pistol Association) for the CA DOJ approved list. Since, they are responsible for getting it passed. :fire:
 
wilkersk said:
I know I'm gonna get all kinds of responses on this. But, what I'm looking for is a source that addresses this problem. Anyone got a linky?
Click to expand...


I havent gone through it since it wont go into effect for some 15 years if I understand things correctly, but you may find some info here:

http://leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=ab_1471&sess=CUR&house=B&author=feuer

The technology is a joke and I dont forsee it actually going into effect . Enjoy the beautiful weather and dont sweat it.
 
1. There is language in the law that says it (microstamping) will not be implemented until there are no patent restrictions on the technology (the patents expire sometime around 2025).
Click to expand...

I havent gone through it since it wont go into effect for some 15 years if I understand things correctly,
Click to expand...


People are assuming the patent holder will continue to hold the patent the entire time.
They can of thier own free will give up the rights to the patent at any time. If they decide they will make a larger profit with millions of customers forced by law to use their services, albeit not the entire market, they can benefit by giving up those rights.

In 2010 or 2011 they could say they are releasing the rights of thier patents to the public, and then enjoy the wealth of mandated business until others tool up and displace them.
They have little to gain by holding the patent to something barely used, and a lot to gain financially by being one of the only companies in place to fulfill the service initially.
So unless they are generating wealth from the patent, what they choose to do with thier patent is unknown. Including that they will choose to retain it the entire time.
That is merely a speculative assumption.
 
reloading a spent casing that already has another firearm's serial number marked on it?
Click to expand...
Well, I don't know about you, but I'm such a brass whore that I routinely pick up brass from crime scenes so I don't have to buy brass. :neener::p:neener:

Hey, anything on the ground is free for the taking, as long as the original shooter doesn't want it!
 
So....

When your gun gets stolen, and is used in a crime, some civil attorney is going to come after you for damages.

You obviously failed to safeguard your weapon, and now you will have to pay.

They'll track you down with your weapons imprint and insist the crime is your fault, because you shouldn't have had a gun in the first place, and this is how we stop it, by bleeding you dry.

Welcome to civil law. Lawyers are starting to drool already. :uhoh:
 
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