Gunowners of America support microstamping

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This is the no compromise outfit now working in New Jersey for microstamping. The bill we just defeated in California.
Say it ain't so Larry.

Vick

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php...UVFeXk2OTk2NTIzJnlyaXJ5N2Y3MTdmN3ZxZWVFRXl5Mg

Etched bullets interest law enforcement
Monday, September 25, 2006

By JASON TSAI
STAFF WRITER


A new, ultra-precise laser technology can engrave the entire alphabet on the tip of a ballpoint pen. It's called microstamping, and it's got the attention of some law enforcement officials, intrigued by its potential use in solving gun crimes.

"This could take ballistics to a whole new level," said New Jersey State Police Capt. Al Della Fave. "Any type of technology that helps law enforcement in terms of identification of a weapon used in a crime is going to be tremendously helpful."

For two years, the California Legislature has considered bills mandating that all new handguns be manufactured with microstamping, through which a weapon's firing pin engraves the serial number, make and model on bullet casings.

Opponents have sent the measure to a narrow defeat the past two legislative sessions, calling the technology costly and ineffective.

"Nothing has shown that mandating microstamping will yield any public safety benefits," said Lawrence Keane, a spokesman for the National Shooting Sports Foundation.

Fast facts


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How microstamping works:


A laser inscribes the tip of the firing pin with the handgun's serial number, make and model.


Each time the handgun is fired, the firing pin engraves the information on the bullet's shell casing.


Casings found at crime scenes could then be linked, proponents say, to the weapon(s) that fired them.

Source: Todd Lizotte

Keane and other gun industry representatives say the technology is flawed primarily because the microscopic etchings can be easily filed off using common household tools. They also say it could cost up to $150 per firearm.

Proponents, meanwhile, tout the ability to track bullet casings found at crime scenes.

"This is technology that would cost manufacturers from 50 cents to a dollar," said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, countering the cost argument.

What's more, he said, firing pins equipped with microstamping technology are nearly as hard as diamonds. Successfully filing the pin down would prevent the gun from firing, Helmke said.

As the debate continues out West, an informal survey of some law enforcement officials in New Jersey shows they'd be open to considering the technology on new handguns.

"Definitely law enforcement would use it," said Deputy Chief Edward Murphy of the Passaic County Prosecutor's Office.

Some concerns need to be addressed, Murphy said, including the relative ease of replacing a firing pin.

"But we wouldn't be against it," he said. "It's interesting technology."

Michael Mordaga, chief of detectives for the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office, has deeper reservations.

"Would it be enough to say in court that the bullet casings automatically link someone to a crime?" he said. "I'm all for doing anything you can to make criminal investigations smoother, though I can understand some of the arguments against it."

Developed in the 1990s by New Hampshire inventor Todd Lizotte, microstamping was initially used in the medical and computer technology fields to sculpt and etch minute hardware. Microstamping firearms became attractive to gun control advocates around late 2002, when a series of Beltway sniper attacks in Maryland and Washington, D.C. confounded authorities.

"I think the sense was: They could find all this forensic evidence, but why couldn't they identify the gun it came from?" said Joshua Horwitz, executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, which has teamed with the Brady Campaign to champion microstamping.

Current technology requires forensic scientists to analyze a fired bullet or casing's unique markings -- or ballistics fingerprints -- to link it with a firearm. Much like human fingerprints, the ballistic markings are entered into a national database to be matched with a gun.

Advocates say microstamping handguns would simplify the process: The information on fired shell casings would immediately match guns on existing databases.

New Jersey, considered to have some of the strictest gun laws in the country, is one of the few states that require buyers to obtain a license from law enforcement before purchasing firearms.

"If it goes according to plan, this would work well and make our jobs easier," said Bergen County Sheriff Leo McGuire, whose office has one of the busiest ballistics laboratories in the state.

Microstamping would be particularly advantageous in crimes when the bullet or shell casing is too fragmented, McGuire said.

A large number of gun crimes are committed with stolen guns, which can often lead police "on the wrong path," said Larry Pratt, executive director of the Gun Owners of America. Yet, with microstamping, he said, "at least detectives have a path to follow."
"Any information is better than none," Murphy said. "Is it going to work every single time? I doubt it. But even if it works once, it's worth it."



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Jersey State Police Capt. Al Della Fave. "Any type of technology that helps law enforcement in terms of identification of a weapon used in a crime is going to be tremendously helpful."

Duh, why don't we just pass a law requiring criminals to report the type of weapon used in a crime within 24 hours and if they don't put them on double dog probation. Oh no wait, only honest citizens have any requirements when it comes to guns.

Seriously though, microstamping isn't a crime fighting tool, it is a way to stop guns via taxes, they see it as a success with cigarettes so they are trying to apply it elsewhere. I am sure these laws have some sort of tax levied on gun owners to be able to apply the law, but criminals won't be paying that.
 
"if it works once it's worth it " Come on Larry, that's the old anti-gun line 'If banning guns will save just one life it's worth it "
 
There are only about a couple dozen good reasons that is a bad idea, so I randomly picked one: revolvers don't leave cases.
 
One big snag: revolvers.

Two big snag: for autoloaders, you can make a cloth bag out of
a blue jean leg with a frame from coathanger wire and make a
shell catcher.

Three big snag: The MICRENGRAVING could be polished off without
significantly shortening the firing pin.

Four big snag: somebody really sinister plotting a crime could
scoop up empty casings at a police or civilian firing range and
pollute a crime scene with dozens of red herrings (while carrying
off their empties in a revolver).

That's without trying too hard.
 
Don't forget that for this to "work", guns will have to be registered.... which always leads to confiscation.
 
I called the GOA office in Va. too late. Left a message and sent an email asking if Larry Pratt actually made the statement.

Waiting for reply.

Will post,

Vick
 
Oh great, so they use this technology to make recreational, and even more importantly defensive training, shooting applications even more prohibitively expensive. So, people can still buy the guns .. they just can't afford to practice (even more than they already can't) , which in turn assures more accidental injuries and casualties .. which is bad enough , but becomes even more ammuniton for total gun bans .. *sigh*
This is just one more way that or guns are going to be stripped from us, not by force, but by slow legislation.
 
Lifted this from a Calguns.net thread regarding AB 352 last July. You folks in Jersey better gather up and form a line. They had a practice run here in California and the wounds are still healing.

http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=36142&page=4&highlight=Todd+Lizotte

This was in our bill ".....removal and obliteration of a manufacturer’s or importer's markings on those parts carries the penalty of up to ten years in federal prison and $250,000.00 fine."


Knock'em dead,

Vick

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, RavensForge is not the patent holder - it is a company in a company in PA.
Inventors: Lizotte; Todd E. (Manchester, NH)
Assignee: Identification Dynamics, LLC (Pottstown, PA)

Appl. No.: 10/232,766
Filed: August 29, 2002

Not surprisingly, they hold the patent on the reading technology as well...

Patent Office
http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html
 
What's more, he said, firing pins equipped with microstamping technology are nearly as hard as diamonds. Successfully filing the pin down would prevent the gun from firing, Helmke said.

The above statement is just false.

Carl N. Brown said:
One big snag: revolvers.

Two big snag: for autoloaders, you can make a cloth bag out of
a blue jean leg with a frame from coathanger wire and make a
shell catcher.

Three big snag: The MICRENGRAVING could be polished off without
significantly shortening the firing pin.

Four big snag: somebody really sinister plotting a crime could
scoop up empty casings at a police or civilian firing range and
pollute a crime scene with dozens of red herrings (while carrying
off their empties in a revolver).

That's without trying too hard.

Fifth big snag: Every gun that exists now won't microstamp.
 
Sixth Big Snag:

You can buy aftermarket firing pins. What are we gonna do, categorize and serialize them, too? C'mon.

Mike
 
".....removal and obliteration of a manufacturer’s or importer's markings on those parts carries the penalty of up to ten years in federal prison and $250,000.00 fine."

Actually, that's not true. Removing the serial number from the firearm is prohibited but only applies to the portion of the firearm that the feds consider to be the firearm. If a semi-auto handgun barrel has a serial number stamped on it in addition to the serial number on the frame, it is not illegal to change out the barrel to an unmarked barrel or to obliterate the serial number on the barrel. Same goes for any serialized part other than the "official" serial numbered part.

Edited to add: The manufacturer's markings, logos, etc., on the flats of a slide can legally be polished out as long as they don't include the "Official" serial number.
 
I already won't support GOA, if that statement is true it would just be another reason not to.
 
["if it works once it's worth it "]

What nonsense! We fight wars and millions die to preserve our freedoms. Since when does one life make it OK to give up what many thousands of Americans have died for through the years??

Jerry
 
I can see it now. Gun owners paying a premium for older used firearms and not buying guns with the new technology.
 
The "if it works once" line was given by Chief Murphy.

I could easily see how Pratt's actual comment (not the one attributed by nearly-blind forum posters) could be taken completely out of context by a malicious journalist.

A large number of gun crimes are committed with stolen guns, which can often lead police "on the wrong path," said Larry Pratt, executive director of the Gun Owners of America. Yet, with microstamping, he added sarcastically, "at least detectives have a path to follow, even when it's the wrong one," before turning away from our esteemed reporter in disgust

Wait for his explanation instead.



Why am I posting to this thread?
 
Aren't MD and NY still collecting bullet casings from new guns?

How many crimes has that little initiative solved? NONE!
 
Tim James:
I could easily see how Pratt's actual comment (not the one attributed by nearly-blind forum posters) could be taken completely out of context by a malicious journalist.

A large number of gun crimes are committed with stolen guns, which can often lead police "on the wrong path," said Larry Pratt, executive director of the Gun Owners of America. Yet, with microstamping, he added sarcastically, "at least detectives have a path to follow, even when it's the wrong one," before turning away from our esteemed reporter in disgust

Wait for his explanation instead.

I couldnt agree more, to many people are all to ready to pull out a Flame Thrower on this things despite knowing full well what the media usualy gets up to...:banghead:
 
Remember the poor local deputy that was misquoted by a junior reporter that citizens shouldn't try to defend themselves? He had to field angry calls and emails from the Internet crew all day. I almost feel bad for the guy, but then again, maybe it's better to crush 10 Larry Pratts accidentally than let 1 Tamara Dietrich go free.
 
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