Calling Steve Smith, eye dominance question

[goalie]

Steve, I have a question for you regarding switching which way you shoot. As my name hints, I am a goalie. Well, I was involved in a pretty bad collision a few years ago that resulted in shoulder surgery and, oddly enough, as a result of a concussion (I am told by the nero docs at work, this is pretty rare but it happens?!?!?!) I am now VERY left-eye dominant. This has not really been that big of a deal for me with a handgun, as just moving the head a little allows me to shoot fine, however, with a rifle I am needing to switch to lefty.

I have already gotten a left-handed shooting jacket and glove, but I am just feeling wierd with my positions. Offhand is actually suprisingly stable for me, although the loading is going to take some getting used to, but my sitting and prone is driving me nuts. I am wondering if the lefty AR shooters you have seen are reaching under the rifle or over the rifle to load rounds and change magazines. (I know I am not allowed to switch anything from stock on a service rifle, so an ambidextrious safety/mag release is out of the question.) Unlike offhand, in my other positions I do not want to be taking the rifle off of my shoulder between shots, so any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Steve Smith]

You know, I'm not the only Highpower shooter here!


Jon Coppenbarger is cross-dominant and hasn't switched yet...but it sounds like your left eye is much more dominant than his. I do believe a person should shoot with their dominant eye...but you don't have much of a choice anyway.

I haven't HAD to watch how lefties do it...but I have watched some (like Shawn McKenna, 2003 Civilian Service Rifle Highpower Champion) and Stewart Leach...as well as several others. It seems like it's mainly muscle memory. I don't recall whether they go over the top or underneath, but it's done in a flash...just like my totally-right handed mag changes or single loading is. I DO recall seeing Shawn "whack" the bolt release with his left palm after the mag change...kinda like a person would do if you were using an AR "socially." Obviously, you want to leave your support hand exactly where it is at all times, so all the work will have to be done with your left hand on a seriously right hander's gun. If you practice practice practice...always doing it the same way, you'll get your muscle memory. Study the movements that are necessary to get the job done, find out how best to be effecient and accurate with your movements, and then practice it a lot.




As an aside, I am VERY right handed, but my eyes are almost 50-50 in dominance, so I have to work at not using my left eye occasionally when shooting. sometimes I just pop up looking through the wrong eye. Weird.

 

[goalie]

Thanks, I guess I will just parctice in the basement about a zillion times for the rapid fire mag changes. I am thinking that the slow fire shouldn't be too big of a deal, and, as I said, the offhand is suprisingly stable, I think because my dominant arm is supporting the rifle.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

I know I am not allowed to switch anything from stock on a service rifle, so an ambidextrious safety/mag release is out of the question.

...wow. That's pretty harsh.

 

[Steve Smith]

Andrew, it's not harsh when the name of the game is Service Rifle. You shoot the gun the military shoots. Lefties in the Army seem to figure it out. There is an alternative, and that's to shoot Match Rifle class where any doo-dad is legal.


One thing to be careful with is when you drop the round into the action, make sure it falls partially into the chamber, so that is doesn't hang up against the gas tube and get wedged in when you hit the bolt release.

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

I have praticed left handed quite alot about 1 1/2 years ago and found it was a little weird at first but had no problems with dealing with mag changes in practice. If I remember correctly it was a wash with shooting right handed and I mean that I know the mag release is on the right side and what I did was as soon as it was time to change the mag I just hit it with my thumb on my left hand as soon as I fired my last shot before the mag change and it really was not bad and then inserted the mag and hit the release all with my left hand , it was as fast as ever.

Also tried and little different way and was starting to like it and that was to just turn the rifle 90 degrees or just enough to give access to the button and then turn it back and the mag fell out while I was getting the new mag to insert and the rest was the same.

I found it to be actually a little easier than a right handed person either reaching threw the carry handle to release the bolt stop or turning the rifle over to release it.

I have not changed for several reasons for me any way.
#1 to dang old to try a new way or at least see where I stand and if I can improve a little more right handed and already have all the right handed equipment and just to cheap to switch right now.

Good luck and I think you will be happy with it.
Jon

 

[goalie]

Thanks guys for the info. I just got done putting in an hour of dry-fire in the sitting position and am finally getting the hang of lefty mag changes. I never really had a huge issue with not getting all my rounds downrange in the rapids, so I am thining that the lefty mag changes shouldn't really matter too much as long as they are not more than a second or two slower. I have decided to scrap the web sling though. I have always liked the web sling, maybe because that I what I learned with, however, the adjustments with the numbered holes on the Turner sling make it easier for me to get into a repeatable solid position faster using my left hand to manipulate the sling. For me, I am finding that getting into a solid, repeatable position rapidly is requireing much more work than the actual act of firing lefty.

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

Do not worry about it.
It is mainly a muscle memory thing and with practice it will come to you.

Good luck Jon

 

[odiedog]

Sorry it took me so long to get to this game! Had to find out where JC snuck off to.

As a leftie, I can tell you what I have found works. I'm no Shawn McKenny but I'm working on it!

OH - I think it is easier for lefties. I use a semi open fist right hand to rest the rifle on, right in front of the magazine. My wrist touches the front of the magazine for indexing. After shooting a shot, turn wrist, grab hand guard, lower rifle with barrel down, chamber opening pointed up a little, drop round in, push forward with pinky into chamber (which lefties can see as opposed to righties.) Tap bolt release with palm of left hand, grab pistol grip and go through your mounting process.

SR - I've tried most of the leg positions and pulse seems to be the biggest factor in selecting which one to use. Otherwise, they all work. I place scope on right side but I may change that this year because I keep hitting it when I sit down. New mag goes next to left foot to help index posion on the mat. On the reload, I romove left hand from grip, grab butt, lower it down to left leg thigh, reach over top of the gun with left hand and release mag with left thumb. Reach down and grab new mag while rotating gun towards body (right hand stays in position through the whole process and grabs the handguard to rotate rifle back and forth) Insert mag with left hand, slide left hand up and release bolt while passing by with palm. Plant right elbow in position, grab rear butt with left hand and raise and press forward into shoulder pocket. Continue shooting. I wear a Past shoulder pad inside my jacket to push the gun further forward. lefties can get too close to the forward assist

PR - Similar to SR. Why learn two different techniques. The shoulder pad really helps in prone positioning, given my body type.

SP - Since no mag change, the only thing that is different for me is that I have to rotate the gun further to the left to load the round and push it forward with little finger. Rotate gun upright before releasing the bolt. Watch the chamber to make the sure the round doesn't slide back. I use a single load follower but I don't think it matter that much if you are careful.

Must work some of the time, I've cleaned both SR and PR with plenty of time to spare.

Of course I could be wrong.

Hey Steve, Found a new bumper sticker for this year's gun. Stole it from a ski tuning shop. "It's not the Gun, You Suck!"

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

Hey you western guy you have spent to many nights out with the rest of the X games crowd and starting to have ilussions of passing us up this year.
must of been the corp's that made you think like that.

are you going to attend the meeting on the 7th for perry planning.

I have to hide out here because steve will not kick me off or ban me yet.

Jon

 

[odiedog]

Can't make the meeting. Have to teach skiing on Saturdays (don' thave to, I like to) until March 6. I will be going to CP but only for the first week this year (CMP) Need to finish up my distinguished! On the other hand, I might just get-r-done at the 2 EIC matches in CO this summer. I'll leave the second and third place points for you guys to fight over

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

Andrew, it's not harsh when the name of the game is Service Rifle. You shoot the gun the military shoots. Lefties in the Army seem to figure it out.

*shrug* I just find it a little uncool that lefties aren't allowed to make the gun safer to use for them. Service rifle class not withstanding.

 

[Steve Smith]

Andrew, I empathize with your sentiment, but I bet Odiedog would tell you that he doesn't feel hobbled at all.



Odie, it'll be hard to leg out if you're always losing to me!


Ok, I LOVE that sticker idea...now I need to get it printed up.

 

[odiedog]

Andrew, I was dry firing last night and realized I was a little off on the offhand reloading process. It is so automatic I couldn't recall it when I wrote the first response. After shooting, I grab the rifle with the right hand, around the front of the mag well. This puts my right thumb right under the ejection port and it puts my fingers right over the bolt release. After I load the round, I bring the gun up until it is pointed down range, close the bolt with my right finger, grab the pistol grip, reposition my right hand under the hand guard and go throught the ritual.

Steve - Seems I have to learn to shoot slow prone and you have to learn to shoot offhand. I wonder which one will be successful first. Of course, Jon will try to slip by while we are duking it out (at least he can imagine doing that

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

back when i had an AR, the first thing i put on it was an ambi safety.

when i reloaded, i hit the bolt release with my trigger finger, and the magazine release with my thumb.

 

[goalie]

Well guys, I have some good news: although shooting/dry firing lefty still feels a little "off" to me, all the position time has helped to start breaking in my new lefty Creedmoor heavy cordura coat. Maybe it is just the optomist in me, but I am starting to think that having to "learn" my positions all over again, not only after a long time off from shooting HP, but left handed as well, is going to actually help me. I know a lot more about what I want out of a position now than I did when I first started shooting in the marines at 18, and I think I just might avoid some of the common pitfalls of poor position this time around because of it.

One unrelated question for you highpower guys: I have been reading Tubbs' book, and he, along with some others, suggest that in the sitting position you use the "modified" crossed leg position. Well, I could do that easily enough, however, I am quite flexible (I can still almost do the full splits, and I stretch daily to ensure that age does not totally screw up my goaltending abilities) and shooting with the crossed-leg position, or "Indian style" sitting if you will, does not bother me in the least, and feels more comfy for me. It is not like the .223 has any real recoil to knock me out of position, so is it really that big of a deal if I just keep my sitting position crossed-leg?

 

[odiedog]

As I mentioned above, my experience is that the only things that should drive your sitting position are pulse and fatigue while in position. Fatigue shouldn't be a big factor because you rarely spend much time in the sitting position. Pulse is easy to see the first time you sit down and look at a tiny target. Don't forget to loosen your belt and waist band before sitting. The abdominal compression will make the abdominal aorta pulse bounce you all over. If the position you are using doesn't have any pulse bounce, go for it. If there is a pulse bounce, try something else or will probably never clean the 200 rapid. Sometimes, small changes are all that is needed.

 

[Steve Smith]

On that subject, I started using a set of suspenders and unbuttoning my pants completely before sitting, but then I got away from that again. It seemed to help with pulse.