Camping World Anti-Hunting, Boycott Em!
- Thread starter steve4102
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Generally it is considered polite to at least give a brief description of the story in the link rather than just posting a link and expecting people to click on it.
I don't think that what they did necessarily makes them anti-hunting.
I think taking a few deer for the freezer and just killin' stuff for the experience are completely different things.
A lot of people are uncomfortable with the idea of folks flying thousands of miles just to kill things, including elephants. I just can't see why people want to kill elephants, as intelligent as they are. I suppose if it was legal to shoot chimps and gorillas trophy hunters would shoot them as well.
I think taking a few deer for the freezer and just killin' stuff for the experience are completely different things.
A lot of people are uncomfortable with the idea of folks flying thousands of miles just to kill things, including elephants. I just can't see why people want to kill elephants, as intelligent as they are. I suppose if it was legal to shoot chimps and gorillas trophy hunters would shoot them as well.
ChrisHarris
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What the Trump boys did was NOT hunting. You know it. I know it. Everybody knows it. That was killing for the sake of killing. That was disrespectful taking of wild life for sick personal pleasure.
I don't support that kind of activity. It's got 'unethical' written all over it.
If I saw pictures of those 2 spoiled brats hiking around in the Colorado mountains wearing snow shoes and stalking a WILD herd of elk WITHOUT a paid guide and WITHOUT the aid of a helicopter to cherry pick drop them into the middle of a herd ............. I 'might' have a little respect for them.
This is just my personal opinion, and I'll probably get flamed for it........... If you're PAYING a guide to take you to cherry picked game that are FENCED in or maybe 'trained' to come to any type of bait or feeder... or you've paid a helicopter pilot to chase the animals down for you until they are too tired to run anymore before you jump out and shoot that animal ......... then you're not really hunting. You're sport killing.
REAL hunters, ethical sportsmen.. do it the hard way and EARN their shots.
I don't support that kind of activity. It's got 'unethical' written all over it.
If I saw pictures of those 2 spoiled brats hiking around in the Colorado mountains wearing snow shoes and stalking a WILD herd of elk WITHOUT a paid guide and WITHOUT the aid of a helicopter to cherry pick drop them into the middle of a herd ............. I 'might' have a little respect for them.
This is just my personal opinion, and I'll probably get flamed for it........... If you're PAYING a guide to take you to cherry picked game that are FENCED in or maybe 'trained' to come to any type of bait or feeder... or you've paid a helicopter pilot to chase the animals down for you until they are too tired to run anymore before you jump out and shoot that animal ......... then you're not really hunting. You're sport killing.
REAL hunters, ethical sportsmen.. do it the hard way and EARN their shots.
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Freedom_fighter_in_IL
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Chris, just how do "you know it"? Were you there? Could you please direct me to an "unguided" hunt in Africa for non residents? Sure can't because they don't exist. You speak as if you are jealous of them having money. There Grandfather hunted with them. He taught them the love of the outdoors. Just because their father is a worthless bag of hair shouldn't transfer upon them.
Weedy, the neighboring tribes use every scrap of meat from the taken elephants. It doesn't go to waste. What that little article neglects to say is the fact that in the areas where elephant hunting is ILLEGAL, the herds are down to almost nil whereas the places where it is legal and controlled, the herds are thriving to the point of OVER population.
Weedy, the neighboring tribes use every scrap of meat from the taken elephants. It doesn't go to waste. What that little article neglects to say is the fact that in the areas where elephant hunting is ILLEGAL, the herds are down to almost nil whereas the places where it is legal and controlled, the herds are thriving to the point of OVER population.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Weedy and ChrisHarris: Go back and read the thread started by H&H that is stickied toward the top of this forum's page. You really do need some educating on the subject before offering opinions. Really.
"I just can't see why people want to kill elephants, as intelligent as they are."
As with any herbivore, there is a limit to a habitat's carrying capacity. In many parts of Africa, there are too many elephants for the habitat to support in healthy fashion. And it has been known for decades that when a local community derives monetary value from a species, they will protect that species. No monetary value? No protection.
"I suppose if it was legal to shoot chimps and gorillas trophy hunters would shoot them as well."
Trophy hunters are not allowed to shoot those species. Poachers do that. Once there was some learning process about gorillas and the endangerment from native poachers, they've been protected for decades--at the cost of lives in their behalf. Sure, there might be some poaching sort of hunters who would shoot anything just for the trophy aspect, but they are not part of what we here call the trophy-hunting fraternity. Basically, your usage of trophy hunter abuses the term.
Also note that the meat from that elephant was consumed by the local population--which is the common practice and definitely helps alleviate their difficulty in having adequate dietary protein.
As far as Camping World? They're dealing with the reality of American perception, media power and animal-hugger ignorance and noise.
"I just can't see why people want to kill elephants, as intelligent as they are."
As with any herbivore, there is a limit to a habitat's carrying capacity. In many parts of Africa, there are too many elephants for the habitat to support in healthy fashion. And it has been known for decades that when a local community derives monetary value from a species, they will protect that species. No monetary value? No protection.
"I suppose if it was legal to shoot chimps and gorillas trophy hunters would shoot them as well."
Trophy hunters are not allowed to shoot those species. Poachers do that. Once there was some learning process about gorillas and the endangerment from native poachers, they've been protected for decades--at the cost of lives in their behalf. Sure, there might be some poaching sort of hunters who would shoot anything just for the trophy aspect, but they are not part of what we here call the trophy-hunting fraternity. Basically, your usage of trophy hunter abuses the term.
Also note that the meat from that elephant was consumed by the local population--which is the common practice and definitely helps alleviate their difficulty in having adequate dietary protein.
As far as Camping World? They're dealing with the reality of American perception, media power and animal-hugger ignorance and noise.
ChrisHarris
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Art,
What has that sticky got to do with ethics? It's a sticky on minimum calibers allowed to hunt big game.
I don't need an education from you or anybody else on ethics. TYVM
What has that sticky got to do with ethics? It's a sticky on minimum calibers allowed to hunt big game.
I don't need an education from you or anybody else on ethics. TYVM
22-rimfire
Member
Were you there? How was it disrespectful? Join PETA and picket the Trumps. For my part, I wish I could afford such a hunt!
Maybe not, but your knowledge of what actually happens on a dangerous game or plains game hunt is Africa is lacking. What Art is trying to do is point you in the right direction to fix that. H&Hhunter is our resident expert, and I do not use that term lightly, on hunting in Africa. He has been there and done that more times than most people go deer or elk hunting. The man knows his stuff. Please read the following thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=189864
It has nothing to do with caliber selection. So please take the time to read up on the subject from someone who has actually been there.
Freedom_fighter_in_IL
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Seems to me Chris you are seriously fooling yourself there. Judging from your little rant, you don't know a hill of beans. Any man that says he needs no education from anyone about the hunting world is a fool. Period. I've probably hunted and taken more Big Game species than most on this board. Yet I would happily take advise from Art, H&HHunter, and several others here. ANYONE can learn something new. Hell I've learned things from stone cold rookies while taking them on their very first outing Elk hunting. You come across like an arrogant young man with some serious jealousy issues about those of us who happen to have money. Jumping us old folks like Art and I (Art's older but I'm prettier
) is not very smart.
Carl N. Brown
Member
Supposedly the meat was donated to local villages. The outrage over safari hunting is being ballyhooed by PETA. I know a lot of folks resent the rich and suspect safari hunts are "canned" and not all that sporting, but PETA would probably make a stink over a photo of me at fifteen proudly posing with a full bag limit of grey squirrel that I took with a .22 with only two misses, just before my uncles skinned, paraboiled and cooked them up as squirrel dumplings.
ADDED: Question should be, how much money did the Trumps pump into the local African economy? How much safari hunter money goes to support wildlife protection and law enforcement?
ADDED: Question should be, how much money did the Trumps pump into the local African economy? How much safari hunter money goes to support wildlife protection and law enforcement?
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mljdeckard
Member
I find it a bit amusing that people think if others hunt differently than they do, they aren't real hunters. My grandfather would never use scopes, because he thought it gave the hunter too much advantage. Some people think guides are cheating. And you know full well, somewhere out there, there is a cave man scoffing at those wussy native Americans for using arrows when back in his day, range was limited to the spear you threw by hand.
Get over yourselves.
Get over yourselves.
Freedom_fighter_in_IL
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Shoot mljdeckard, just ask Art how hard it was back in the cave man days, you know, back when they only had rocks.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Chris, I was referring to this thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=189864
Sorry; late-night tireds...
FFIL, you're welcome to join me in a rendition of, "Oh, Lord, But It's Hard To Be Humble."
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=189864
Sorry; late-night tireds...
FFIL, you're welcome to join me in a rendition of, "Oh, Lord, But It's Hard To Be Humble."
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Freedom_fighter_in_IL
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Hey Grandpaw, Whats fer supper!!
22-rimfire
Member
This general discussion topic reflects experience and education or the lack of it. Folks talk about hunting on deer leases and high fence ranches in Texas as "not real hunting" since they commonly use feeders or bait. Some would say it is simply not ethical. My general leanings are if it is legal it is ethical whether it be hunting a large buck in Texas on a high fence ranch, using dogs for hunting bear or feral hogs, hunting a big cat over bait in Africa, or stalking a cape buffalo or elephant that is seen first from a "road" and then hunted.
Guillermo
member
Weedy and ChrisHarris,
I do not understand why either of you would object to hunting in Africa.
The critters there (like here) are biodegradable, renewable and tasty.
Hunting provides much needed income and protein to the locals.
Looks like fun to me.
I do not understand why either of you would object to hunting in Africa.
The critters there (like here) are biodegradable, renewable and tasty.
Hunting provides much needed income and protein to the locals.
Looks like fun to me.
Guillermo
member
BTW,
I will hand write a letter to Marcus Lemonis, CEO of Camping World and explain that we will not be renting an RV from them this next hunting season and that I will do my best to inform every hunter I know about his anti- hunting, PETA pandering rant.
If you wish to do the same
650 Three Springs Rd.
Bowling Green, KY 42104
I will hand write a letter to Marcus Lemonis, CEO of Camping World and explain that we will not be renting an RV from them this next hunting season and that I will do my best to inform every hunter I know about his anti- hunting, PETA pandering rant.
If you wish to do the same
650 Three Springs Rd.
Bowling Green, KY 42104
buck460XVR
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IMHO, there is a big difference in actively hunting an animal and/or just shooting it over bait or in an enclosure. That is ethics and is an arguable subject and folks need to understand that not all of us ride that same boat. If it is a legal and acceptable practice in the area, it is only a question of ethics. What the Trump boys did was legal and their hunt brought money in, disposed of some nuisance animals and gave the natives a fair amount of fresh meat. I assume most of these animals would have been killed anyway because of their numbers and value of the hunts in terms of monies to the area. I'm sure they had a blast and created some good memories even if it was a shoot and not a hunt as many perceive. If you and Camping World have a problem with this than so be it....again it is a question of ethics and hunting values. If you do not agree with Camping Worlds ethics and values and wish to boycott them, this is your choice. There are many corporations that do not match my thoughts and values, or political choices for that matter. But if they produce/ sell a quality product at a better price, I have to look long and hard at just how much I disagree with them. I do agree with therm tho that "The Apprentice" is not worth the money............just sayin'.
Guillermo
member
I would totally concur but I have never seen it not have any desire to.
Marcus Lemonis' anti hunting rant is why I will choose other places to spend my money.
And there is lots of competition in the RV market
22-rimfire
Member
Just remember, if it is written up in the Huffington Post, the story probably has a liberal slant to it if it can be slanted.
I doubt Donald Trump is going to discuss the merits of hunting to any great extent with his sons, but he is a businessman and he will probably focus on the publicity aspects.
I doubt Donald Trump is going to discuss the merits of hunting to any great extent with his sons, but he is a businessman and he will probably focus on the publicity aspects.
bad_aim_billy
Member
I could care less how intelligent they are if they provide a ton of meat.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
For some perspective on the silliness of the objectors, there are occasional government sponsored culling operations in various African countries. H&H can give better numbers than I, but on occasion it's apparently many tens out of an area. Again: Carrying capacity of habitat.
As one raised around farming and ranching, and having run the family ranch for a dozen years as an adult, I often get grumpy when it's obvious that somebody does not have any idea about such things as carrying capacity--yet has very strong opinions as to how things should be.
Sincerity, repetition and a high db level do not create truth.
As one raised around farming and ranching, and having run the family ranch for a dozen years as an adult, I often get grumpy when it's obvious that somebody does not have any idea about such things as carrying capacity--yet has very strong opinions as to how things should be.
Sincerity, repetition and a high db level do not create truth.
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Zimbabwe, Botswana, South Africa, Zambia, and Mozambique all allow controlled and tightly regulated elephant hunting.
They also all have a huge surplus of elephant in fact Zimbabwe, Botswana and South Africa all have severe over population issues.
Sport hunting is what keeps the land mass and the animal numbers high. Without sport hunting and revenue that it brings in the land gets cultivated the animals get killed.
It's that simple. So take your false ethics to the library or read it here but PLEASE for the sake of African wildlife, EDUCATE YOURSELVES! the type of ignorance that weedy and ChrisHarris are so proudly and loudly putting out here is exactly the same kind of feel good, blinders on, ill informed group think, that was propagated in Kenya that led to the hunting ban and that almost immediately caused the vast decimation of their elephant and rhino herds. No hunting=no funds=no protection= mass government sponsored poaching= no wildlife outside of national parks. The elephant population went form a robust 160,000 to just at 6,000 in less than decade.
So my opinionated yet ill educated friends you should both be writing letters of thanks to the Trump "boys" for their efforts and in turn cash infusions which are the one and only life for for African conservation.
This no a flame rather it is the hard cold truth. The sooner the average tear in their beer I seen it in National Geographic so it's gotta be true, American figures it out the better off African wildlife will be.
A couple of points here though.
Zimabawe where the Trumps were hunting conducts most of it's hunts and especially it's dangerous game hunts on huge tracts of wild free range land known as safari blocks. No fences and totally free roaming. All hunts in Southern African countries by nonresidents are required by law to be guided.
They also all have a huge surplus of elephant in fact Zimbabwe, Botswana and South Africa all have severe over population issues.
Sport hunting is what keeps the land mass and the animal numbers high. Without sport hunting and revenue that it brings in the land gets cultivated the animals get killed.
It's that simple. So take your false ethics to the library or read it here but PLEASE for the sake of African wildlife, EDUCATE YOURSELVES! the type of ignorance that weedy and ChrisHarris are so proudly and loudly putting out here is exactly the same kind of feel good, blinders on, ill informed group think, that was propagated in Kenya that led to the hunting ban and that almost immediately caused the vast decimation of their elephant and rhino herds. No hunting=no funds=no protection= mass government sponsored poaching= no wildlife outside of national parks. The elephant population went form a robust 160,000 to just at 6,000 in less than decade.
So my opinionated yet ill educated friends you should both be writing letters of thanks to the Trump "boys" for their efforts and in turn cash infusions which are the one and only life for for African conservation.
This no a flame rather it is the hard cold truth. The sooner the average tear in their beer I seen it in National Geographic so it's gotta be true, American figures it out the better off African wildlife will be.
A couple of points here though.
Zimabawe where the Trumps were hunting conducts most of it's hunts and especially it's dangerous game hunts on huge tracts of wild free range land known as safari blocks. No fences and totally free roaming. All hunts in Southern African countries by nonresidents are required by law to be guided.
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