chopinbloc
Member
I've heard people claim that .22lr is small enough to slip between the fibers on soft armor. I put on my figurative black beret and test this myth. No walrus mustache, though. What do you think? Can .22lr "poke through" soft armor?
Can .22lr defeat soft armor?
- Thread starter chopinbloc
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I've heard people claim that .22lr is small enough to slip between the fibers on soft armor. I put on my figurative black beret and test this myth. No walrus mustache, though. What do you think? Can .22lr "poke through" soft armor?
Sunray
Member
No. It's been tested and tested and tested.
OP
OP
chopinbloc
Member
Of course it has. Yet the myth persists.
ClickClickD'oh
Member
Assuming we are talking about decent armor here and not some thirty year old PASGT vest that's been sitting in a pool of spilled antifreeze in the trunk? The armor.
OP
OP
chopinbloc
Member
Lol. I actually kind of think the PASGT might win, so long as it has been treated nicely.
entropy
Member
How many rounds? I'm sure enough of them will eventually defeat it, but I don't want to see you shoot up all your .22 ammo.....
Deaf Smith
Member
Sure it can. It's called a) head shot, b) arm pit shot, c) groin shot.
Simple, no?
Deaf
Simple, no?
Deaf
Steel Horse Rider
Member
Deaf Smith has it right for all calibers and all armor.
OP
OP
chopinbloc
Member
Yeah, that's why all law enforcement and military just gave up on personal armor. No sense wearing it at all.
MachIVshooter
Member
You should give it a try with that new CCI copper .22. Not sure if they're fast enough, but they're cooking for a .22 LR, advertised 1850 FPS MV. That's a good clip faster than Stingers.
OP
OP
chopinbloc
Member
That might do the trick.
Vern Humphrey
Member
It won't -- jeepnik's comment.
In the '80s, "Teflon coated bullets" had Congress' panties in a wad. Someone suggested the Army adopt these "armor-piercing" bullets. I was tasked with investigating the suggestion.
I found both the Treasury and Justice Departments had already investigated this ammo. In the process I also investigated how Kevlar vests work. Long story short -- .22 LRs of any stripe cannot penetrate Kevlar body armor. The weave is much too tight for a bullet to "slip between the fibers" and there are many layers. The Kevlar threads simply don't break, and the bullet tries to carry them along with it -- which means it's trying to carry the whole vest through the hole. And that's impossible.
In the '80s, "Teflon coated bullets" had Congress' panties in a wad. Someone suggested the Army adopt these "armor-piercing" bullets. I was tasked with investigating the suggestion.
I found both the Treasury and Justice Departments had already investigated this ammo. In the process I also investigated how Kevlar vests work. Long story short -- .22 LRs of any stripe cannot penetrate Kevlar body armor. The weave is much too tight for a bullet to "slip between the fibers" and there are many layers. The Kevlar threads simply don't break, and the bullet tries to carry them along with it -- which means it's trying to carry the whole vest through the hole. And that's impossible.
barnbwt
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Perhaps if you get 28grains of H4895 under the bullet...
...and before someone gets on me for posting 223 load data in a 22LR thread;
"That's a joke, son. A flag waver. You're built too low. The fast ones go over your head. Ya got a hole in your glove. I keep pitchin' 'em and you keep missin' 'em. Ya gotta keep your eye on the ball. Eye. Ball. I almost had a gag, son. Joke, that is." --Foghorn Leghorn
TCB
...and before someone gets on me for posting 223 load data in a 22LR thread;
"That's a joke, son. A flag waver. You're built too low. The fast ones go over your head. Ya got a hole in your glove. I keep pitchin' 'em and you keep missin' 'em. Ya gotta keep your eye on the ball. Eye. Ball. I almost had a gag, son. Joke, that is." --Foghorn Leghorn
TCB
OP
OP
chopinbloc
Member
I say, that boy is a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic. Nice kid, just a little slow on the uptake.
scaatylobo
Member
ALWAYS = if you shoot it from a rifle / carbine.
"soft body armor" will not defeat ANY rifle rounds unless it has been "enhanced" with plates or its level 4.
"soft body armor" will not defeat ANY rifle rounds unless it has been "enhanced" with plates or its level 4.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Where are you getting this?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/body-armor1.htm
This has some interesting info on body armor classifications But I also remember back
when I wore body armor and a helmet both also had velocity ratings too !
I believe that there is a small caliber bullet that pierces soft armor due to its extreme
velocity 5.7 x 28 FN I think its called ?
This has some interesting info on body armor classifications But I also remember back
when I wore body armor and a helmet both also had velocity ratings too !
I believe that there is a small caliber bullet that pierces soft armor due to its extreme
velocity 5.7 x 28 FN I think its called ?
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Eons ago, vest wise, there was a fellow who made vests. He had several folks with different caliber handguns shoot the vest while he was wearing it (talk about faith in your product). Even then, they would stop the rounds they were rated for. You will notice he did not offer to let someone shoot him with, say, a 30-06. The vests weren't rated for that, and he was not a stupid man.
The OP posted about .22lr, not centerfire rifles, or 5.7's or anything else. And he wasn't posting about shooting "around" the vest". I figure we've pretty much determined that the folks who think a .22lr can penetrate a proper vest need to read a bit, and learn some things from that reading.
The OP posted about .22lr, not centerfire rifles, or 5.7's or anything else. And he wasn't posting about shooting "around" the vest". I figure we've pretty much determined that the folks who think a .22lr can penetrate a proper vest need to read a bit, and learn some things from that reading.
Deaf Smith
Member
No, just don't think cause you have a 'vest' you are safe from rounds that your vest is rated to stop. And if you meet a nutjob terrorist presume they have armor and maybe a chest bomb. Thus 'a', 'b', 'c' options, with 'a' being the top priority.
Deaf
barnbwt
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The AP 5.7 (SS190) is basically a miniature M855 with steel penetrator tip & aluminum core that operates on velocity to shear through fibers. Punches bulletproof glass to something crazy like 4" if I remember correctly, as well as Kevlar and thinner steel plate. 4.6x30 from the MP7 is the other similar round, though that one is merely a hardened steel slug driven fast enough to shear fibrous armor & plate. Both are in the 25-30gr range and mid 2300fps speed, so I kind of doubt they'd fare well on ceramic or anything with a lot of mass to pass through.
barnbwt
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"Eons ago, vest wise, there was a fellow who made vests. He had several folks with different caliber handguns shoot the vest while he was wearing it"
He eventually had to stop on doctor's orders (I think he was getting internal organ damage over time, as well as gradually getting more powerful rounds as his products improved their capabilities; I believe 30-06 or 308 were among them at one point). He was famous for contact shooting a 357mag into his gut, though. Probably similar situation as a retired cannonball-catcher.
"Where are you getting this?"
I suspect he is referring to the fact that practically all common center-fire cartridges of intermediate power level (223) or higher will generally not be stopped by soft armor (at least not historically, the newer stuff may be able to). Deflection injuries are part of the equation, as well, so even 45-70 may not be a given.
He eventually had to stop on doctor's orders (I think he was getting internal organ damage over time, as well as gradually getting more powerful rounds as his products improved their capabilities; I believe 30-06 or 308 were among them at one point). He was famous for contact shooting a 357mag into his gut, though. Probably similar situation as a retired cannonball-catcher.
"Where are you getting this?"
I suspect he is referring to the fact that practically all common center-fire cartridges of intermediate power level (223) or higher will generally not be stopped by soft armor (at least not historically, the newer stuff may be able to). Deflection injuries are part of the equation, as well, so even 45-70 may not be a given.
scaatylobo
Member
Posted by the industry when I was an LEO wearing that gear = for about 30 years.
Body armor is generally rated at 3A and that will not stop almost ANY round from a 10" barrel
The ratings are printed on the vests.
NONE of them ever stated any stoppage ability for ANY barrel longer than 6".
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