Can any UK shooter tell me,what handguns they used to own?

[sterling180]

Can any UK shooters,tell me what guns they used to own or had borrowed from their clubs-before the Dunblane Massacre?
If you have pictures,could you post them?

 

[10 Ring Tao]

Egh, be prepared for some bitter answers, if any at all.

 

[goblin357]

Ok first of the sad and bitter replies
(Photos not of mine, but for illustration)

Britarms 2000, .22 won competitions at Bisley 2 years running with this

Colt Python .357 Nickel

Randal service .45

Colt Gold cup .45

Beretta 92

Walther P38

Most of my current guns you can see on my website
http://www.goblinslayer.com

I am lucky enough to be married to a nice Iowa farmgirl, and she bought me this

for christmas!!
Kept on the farm for me to play with on our yearly visits

So to you Mr Tony Blair and the idiot politicians me have to put up with.

 

[sterling180]

Oh,those pictures are very nice indeed,its a shame that the polititions in both parties,were pressured by the GCN-who blatently clouded their judgement-in terms of ignoring the original proposals-from the Lord Cullen inquiry.In saying that pratts like Jack Straw,David Mellor and a few others-pushed for total handgun bans anyway-because they obviously disliked them and felt that there was no need for people to own them.

A couple of years ago,I think we were vey close to loosing pump and semi-automatic shotguns and .22 rimfire rifles-because of a certain "Controls On Firearms" document-that was published by the Home Office.Fortunately they didn't succeed in banning them outright,which was exactly what the GCN wanted.

We might even get pistols back,before the 2012 Olympics-if Labour are gone from power and Cameron is a sensible man-which I think that quite frankly he is not.Too "liberal" for my liking anyway.

 

[Boom-stick]

.22 beretta semi auto target pistol
9mm Browning HP

I was only 21 when the ban came so that was all I'd managed to aquire

But one the ol' boys at my club received over £20,000 in compensation when they took his pistols

If (and it's a BIG 'if') we do by some strange fluke get pistols back, we'll be very lucky if its anything other than ISSF style target pistols and they'll be on a section 7.3 ticket, to be stored and only accessible at places like Bisley.

I don't know about you, but I've shot ISSF a pistol comp and they about as boring, as a boring thing, from boring planet!!

IPSA style practial shooting is the second biggest shooting displine in the world but it's not Olympic so it's not recognised

When you're dealing with this kind of govenment mentality don't hold your breath on getting pistols back.

 

[sterling180]

.22 beretta semi auto target pistol
9mm Browning HP

Did you acquire those pistols in early 1996 or did you at least own them for a few moths or years before?

A very good,solid and reliable pistol-the Browning.I know because in the armed forces,we still use them in Service and in Practical Competitions-but that is the only pistols that we can use-because they are an official service weapon.Glocks and Sig-Sauers,are occasionally used as well.The government raided the military and police forces armouries-and robbed them of handguns,that were used for civillian competitions-by police officers and service-personnel.

One rule and one rule only.I bet it was the same deal for any members of the Royal family-who might of owned handguns,like webleys,Colts,etc.

It must of been extremely frustrating,for those people who bought their handguns on the 12th and 13th March 1996,only to have one year-in which to use them and despose of them by.

Instead we have to use long-barrelled versions instead,of standard versions.

Still,anything is better than nothing at all and we can be grateful that the Labour Party,hasn't outlawed our long-barrelled pistols-but how long can they really last,for?

 

[Boom-stick]

They were on my friends, uncles, ticket from around '91 until I was old enough to have them on mine, confusing I know, but mother would not allow firearms in the house (Dad left when I was 5)

I've UK legal long pistols now and some BP as well

 

[G36-UK]

I was eight at the time of Dunblane, so I don't have anything.

It's only in the last few years that I realised what a mistake the gov made. It's a shame everyone lost out.

(I do collect Airsoft stuff, at least as long as that wil last.)

 

[Preacherman]

Ian Anderson of rock group Jethro Tull comments on his Web site about the handguns he used to own, including a highly customised Browning Hi-Power.

 

[10 Ring Tao]

From http://www.j-tull.com/musicians/iananderson/equipment.html#playing

As the once-proud owner of a Walther P88 pistol – specially set aside for me by the makers – with the serial number 007, I have still a soft spot for the Bond saga. Sadly, said gun has been forcibly neutered under the draconian revisions to UK firearms laws and is relegated to the far reaches of my gun safe. It actually had a grungy single action trigger pull and the double action was even more of a pig. God give me back my Browning Hi-Power with the Barstow match barrel and the MMC target sights. Trigger pull a safe pound and three quarters and reliable with all known 9mm ammunition. Sadly neutered also.

 

[sterling180]

I was eight at the time of Dunblane, so I don't have anything.

Oh,pardon me G36-UK, but you stated on your poster-profile,that you were born on the 25th September 1986,-so at the time of Dunblane(13th March 1996.),you would have been 9 years old during that time.

Not a criticism in anyway,just pointing it out to you.

As for you saying that you have nothing,well you could always apply for a long-barrelled revolver and pistol,or even a black-powder pistol.Anything is better than nothing-unless you are a liberal or a member of the *BSSC.(Joke,no you're not really.)(BSSC-are the worst pro-shooting organization in the UK-they would rather collaborate and appease the antis and the reds-rather than actually fighing for their civil liberties.)Especially Patrick Johnson.

Or if you want to go to Ireland,The Isle Of Man or even The Channel Islands,for pistol-shooting events.There you can hire a handgun and buy ammo and shoot them,on rapid-firing ranges.

 

[sterling180]

Some long-barrelled revolvers from the Smith and Wesson website.

SKU: item_170262
Model: 460XVR
Caliber: .460
Barrel Length: 10.5"
Capacity: 5 Rounds
Hammer: Tear Drop Chrome
Trigger: .312 Chrome
Frame: X-Frame
Grip: Hogue Dual Density Monogrip
Finish: Satin Stainless with Contrasting Matte Accent
Overall Length: 18"
Front Sight: HI-VIZ Interchangeable
Rear Sight: Adjustable Black
Weight Empty: 82.5 oz.
Material: Stainless Steel

SKU: item_170263
Model: 460XVR
Caliber: .460
Barrel Length: 6.5" It's possible that this model is a definate no-no.
Capacity: 5 Rounds
Hammer: Tear Drop Chrome
Trigger: .312 Chrome
Frame: X-Frame
Grip: Hogue Matte Green Dual Density Monogrip
Finish: Hand Rubbed Stainless Steel
Overall Length: 14"
Front Sight: HI-VIZ Interchangeable
Rear Sight: Adjustable Black
Weight Empty: 70.5 oz.
Material: Stainless Steel

SKU: item_170231
Model: 500
Caliber: .500
Capacity: 5 Rounds
Barrel Length: 10 1/2"
Front Sight: Red Ramp Front
Rear Sight: Adjustable
Grip: Rubber Grips
Trigger: .312 Chrome with Overtravel Stop
Hammer: Chrome Tear Drop with Pinned Sear
Frame: X-Frame
Finish: Satin Stainless
Overall Length: 10 1/2"
Material: Stainless Steel
Weight Empty: 82 oz.

Section 7.3 pistol.Uk legal-made before 1919.

Section 7.1 pistol,UK-legal.Can be kept at home,as opposed to the type above.




British Target-Sports journalist Vince Bottomley has said before in a past edition of Target-Sports,that he was going to ask the Smith and Wesson Custom shop-to modify those two handguns-or similar LBR models-to meet the UKs current firearms legislation.

What do any of you UK shooters think? Has Bottomley said anything that could seem possible,or was he indeed talking out of his bottom?

 

[G36-UK]

Oh,pardon me G36-UK, but you stated on your poster-profile,that you were born on the 25th September 1986,-so at the time of Dunblane(13th March 1996.),you would have been 9 years old during that time.

Not a criticism in anyway,just pointing it out to you.

Yeah, good point. I guess I really am getting older

As for you saying that you have nothing,well you could always apply for a long-barrelled revolver and pistol,or even a black-powder pistol.Anything is better than nothing-unless you are a liberal or a member of the *BSSC.(Joke,no you're not really.)(BSSC-are the worst pro-shooting organization in the UK-they would rather collaborate and appease the antis and the reds-rather than actually fighing for their civil liberties.)Especially Patrick Johnson.

Or if you want to go to Ireland,The Isle Of Man or even The Channel Islands,for pistol-shooting events.There you can hire a handgun and buy ammo and shoot them,on rapid-firing ranges.

I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

One thing: Is the .500 Hunter legal, given that you've mentioned it? I thought it wasn't allowed (I suppose that's what I get for not keeping up to date with the laws).

 

[Boom-stick]

Is the .500 Hunter legal,

I don't think so, the only straight walled cartridges they allow for hunting are 45/70 & 450 marlin.

The .500 produces 1800fps and 2887ftlbs so it's got the energy but as it's not on the UK police list of recognised cartridges you would struggle to get it through.

Without years of practice you'd struggle to hang on to it as well

British Target-Sports journalist Vince Bottomley has said before in a past edition of Target-Sports,that he was going to ask the Smith and Wesson Custom shop-to modify those two handguns-or similar LBR models-to meet the UKs current firearms legislation.

They'll do it but it'll cost ya, for £3-3500. a bit to rich for my blood.

 

[sterling180]

A page extracted from the UK Gun Control Network on Pump/semi shotguns

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Read on at your disgust-haven't they done enough damage already?

Submission to the Home Affairs Committee, November 1999

The Gun Control Network (GCN) proposals outlined in this document are predicated on the belief that the interests of public safety demand a reduction in the availability and attractiveness of firearms of all kinds. There is no doubt that gun violence is directly related to the number of weapons in a society, both legal and illegal. The distinction between legal and illegal weapons is not clear cut. It should not be forgotten that virtually all guns start out as legal weapons, and that victims are unable to discriminate between a bullet fired from a legal or an illegal gun. Policy must be based on the strict control of availability of all weapons. What is needed is legislation and law enforcement.

GCN recognises the existence of a significant, though minority, interest in shooting for sport, and our proposals are aimed at striking an appropriate balance between the sport-shooting interest and the overriding interest in public safety. The social and economic consequences of gun violence in any society are hard to estimate in full, but they are real costs.

1. Minimum age limits
GCN proposes a minimum age limit of 18 for ownership, possession and use of guns of all kinds
Children who are introduced to firearms at an early age are more likely than others to become committed firearms owners and users in later life. From a public safety perspective, however, it is clearly desirable to reduce the overall numbers of firearms owners and the number of firearms in private hands. This objective in itself argues for the use of an age limit, limiting firearms ownership by under 18 year olds. The argument that introducing children to the use of firearms is a contribution to public safety – either on grounds of self-defence or on grounds of training children in the responsible use of firearms – is specious, articulated only in the interests of legitimising the spread of firearms ownership in civil society. All the evidence suggests that the increased prevalence of firearms in private hands is in itself the most important factor in their increased use in violent criminal incidents, in suicides or in other human tragedies.

As an organised society, we remain committed to the age of 18 as the age of majority, determining whether people can lawfully buy alcohol, vote or enter into a mortgage. It seems only consistent that a similar restriction should be applied to the purchase and use of highly dangerous weapons.

2. Shotguns
GCN proposes that there should be a ban on pump action shotguns, that all other shotguns should be brought into the Section 1 licensing system and that more stringent storage requirements should be applied

Pump action shotguns are extensively used in Combat Shooting (otherwise known as Practical Shooting). These weapons are unacceptably dangerous, and these weapons and this activity should both be prohibited (see Appendix I).

Recent Home Office reports suggest, in the aftermath of the recent Firearms Amendment Act, a nationwide increase in the numbers of shotguns in private ownership. The existing legislation in Britain allows citizens (including children) to use shotguns in clubs or on private property, without any requirement of licensing. Currently, shotguns are subject to a less rigorous system of control than rifles, even though, on some evidence, they are more frequently used in crime.

Our argument is that shotguns in use for sporting or vocational purposes (for example, in clay pigeon shooting, the shooting of game or the control of vermin) should be securely stored close to the location of use, and that the Section 1 licensing system should be extended to cover their use, purchase and ownership. GCN would also argue that the extension of the licensing system should be underwritten by a prejudice against the licensing of ownership of shotguns outside of recognised rural locations. GCN does not consider it acceptable that any number of shotguns can be held on a single licence, and we would argue for the separate registration of every individual shotgun purchased for sporting and vocational purposes.

3. Other firearms

In the months since the passage of the 1997 Firearms (Amendment) Acts, there have been repeated reports in the national and local press suggesting that gun enthusiasts have been responding to that legislation through the purchase of alternative weaponry that is every bit as lethal as the handguns they used to possess. Two of the critical examples are:

(a) Muzzle-loading weapons

GCN urges the retrospective prohibition of muzzle-loaders within the provisions of UK firearms legislation

Muzzle-loading pistols were not included in the 1997 legislation, on the specific grounds that they require the individual loading of bullets. Subsequent reportage [1] has made clear that many varieties of muzzle-loader can be loaded with great speed, and also that they are capable of firing many shots in rapid succession. Muzzle-loading pistols produced in the United States are now being openly marketed in the United Kingdom, notably in the pages of the firearms magazines and gun shops. It is not at all clear that legislators in 1997 understood that the muzzle-loader pistol has this capacity or that, if they had known this, they would not have classified the muzzle-loader, for all practical and public safety purposes, as a handgun, and thereby subject to the nationwide ban.

(b) Short-barrelled rifles

GCN urges (a) systematic research into the provenance of carbine use in criminal and other incidents in this country and (b) retrospective inclusion of short-barrelled rifles within the provision of UK firearms legislation

Press reports throughout the country have also suggested the increased use by gun enthusiasts, in the aftermath of their surrender of handguns, of short-barrelled rifles such as carbines. Carbines are lever-action weapons which can fire bullets of identical power to handguns and can do so in rapid succession. In many cases, they are only marginally longer than the handguns which have been prohibited (16 inches as opposed to 12 inches), and they are therefore almost as easily concealed as handguns themselves. GCN is not aware of any vocational use for such weapons, but like pump-action shotguns they are extensively used in Combat Shooting. Carbines were excluded from the recent handguns ban on the grounds of being categorised as rifles.

4. Airguns

GCN would support (a) research into the actual prevalence of airgun incidents and (b) an extension of the existing licensing system to air weapons and a minimum age limit of 18 being placed on their use

As reported in Appendix II there is significant public concern over the injuries caused to people who have been targeted by young people using air weapons. Air weapons are frequently targeted against animals and cause significant damage to property. It is unclear whether the reportage of these incidents is a result of any real increase in such incidents or whether it is a function of increased public sensitivity. What is clear, however, is that some of the injuries that have been caused in recent months have been serious (and have resulted in fatalities).

The proliferation and use of these weapons is largely unchecked because no firearms certificate is required for the majority of airguns. GCN notes that a firearms certificate is required for airguns of any power in Northern Ireland and that even in the Isle of Man, where the firearms laws are generally less stringent than those of Britain, a Regulated Weapon Certificate is required for low energy air pistols and air rifles. The Republic of Ireland also requires a firearms certificate for all airguns.

5. Replica Weapons

GCN proposes that replica and imitation weapons which have no legitimate social purpose are prohibited as they are in the Netherlands

Firearms are used not only to injure and kill, but on occasion also simply to intimidate and scare. For this purpose, of course, a replica or ‘look alike’ weapon is often as effective as an original. Scrutiny of the advertisements in firearms magazine press suggests that there is a significant market in the purchase of ‘look-alike weapons’, especially those of more intimidating and powerful appearance.

In the Netherlands weapons such as these which have no legitimate social purpose are banned, and GCN would argue for similar legislation in the UK. We understand that under the provision in the 1982 Act a certificate is needed for an imitation firearm where the article has the appearance of a firearm that requires a certificate. This provision is clearly not being applied and we urge the committee to investigate this further.

We are pleased that the last Government saw fit, in September 1994, to legislate for the creation of a new offence (‘carrying an imitation weapon with intent to cause fear’) carrying a sentence of up to ten years, but in our view this does not adequately address the problem.

6. De-activated and re-activated weapons

GCN proposes that de-activated weapons should be brought within the licensing system

It is currently perfectly legal for private citizens to have ownership of powerful weapons which have ostensibly been ‘de-activated’ before being sold into private collections (for example, of military enthusiasts). But different police forces in England and Wales have encountered a number of cases in the 1990s in which previously de-activated weapons – including Uzi machine guns – have been re-activated for use.[2] The Report of the Metropolitan Commissioner of Police for 1994 pointed to the significant increase in previously de-activated weapons being found in Britain, many of which appeared to emanate from Eastern Europe, but with re-activation occurring in Britain itself. In the same year, investigators working for the local press in Manchester found that they were able to purchase ostensibly de-activated (but actually fully-functional) Danish army machine guns in licensed gun shops in East Manchester for £60, and ascertained that similar weapons were available for a similar price in city centre stores.[3] Other reports suggest that there is a significant underground market nationally in re-activated weapons, particularly linked with fairs at which military regalia are offered for sale to enthusiasts.

We are aware that the Home Office issued a set of guidelines with respect to effective de-activation of weapons, and then tightened these guidelines in 1995 (especially with respect to the technical question of what parts of a firearm must be removed or welded to ensure a final de-activation). It is not clear, however, that police licensing officers throughout the country have developed any strategy for policing the market in de-activated/re-activated weapons (for example, through surveillance of military fairs). Current information made available to GCN suggests that police practice is this area is essentially re-active, responding to cases only as they emerge.

7. Other Issues of Community and Personal Safety

(a) Safety Audits and Police Inspection
GCN calls for the public release of all existing Health and Safety Executive audits of safety in UK gun clubs and of relevant police inspection reports
In the aftermath of the Firearms Amendment Act of 1997, there has been a reduction in the number of firearms clubs (and, indeed, of registered firearms owners). But there are still more than 2,000 such clubs in the country and a range of dangers and risks, in respect of safety of the club members themselves and of local communities, associated with their use. Many clubs (like army ranges) are located on land that may regularly be used by other sections of the public for other purposes (for example, for hiking, camping, mountaineering). Gun clubs are required under existing legislation to ensure that shooting takes place only at specified distances from the boundaries of their property and at specified distances from any public right of way. The practices of gun clubs are theoretically under the supervision of the Health and Safety Executive, but reports suggest that the capacity of the HSE to intervene in practices of the gun clubs is quite severely limited under current legislation. Police licensing officers were given the power, in the 1997 legislation, to inspect the premises of gun clubs to ensure that the firearms and ammunition stored in such clubs were retained ‘in secure conditions’. To our knowledge, there has been no public report of the inspections that were conducted during 1997-8.

(b) Risk assessment in gun clubs

GCN would argue that the examination of a sample of firearms-clubs in the United Kingdom by qualified risk-assessment experts, in collaboration with the Health and Safety Executive, is an urgent challenge in respect of personal and community safety in the vicinity of firearms-clubs, and would urge consideration of a national risk-assessment programme at the earliest opportunity

The identification and management of risk is one of the greatest challenges facing managers of public and private sector authorities of all kinds at the end of the twentieth century. There are quite obviously a range of risks associated with the continued presence of 2,000 gun clubs in urban and rural locations throughout Britain, but we are not aware of any systematic national analysis of these risks, or of any one set of guidelines for ‘best practice’ minimisation of such risks.

(c) Risk assessment in the home

· GCN proposes that there should be an exploratory study conducted by the Health and Safety Executive of the risks associated with the storage of shotguns and other legal weapons in private homes, resulting in a report released for public consumption.

Even more difficult a challenge for Health and Safety regulators and for police licensing officers is the supervision of the means used for storage of shotguns or other legally-owned weaponry in private homes. We are aware of the difficult issues involved here, notably in terms of the legal definition of ‘private space’ in the domestic home, but at the same time there can be no doubting the relevance of this issue in terms of the protection of families and kin of firearms-owners.

8. Firearms Consultative Committee

GCN proposes the abolition or radical reconstitution of the Firearms Consultative Committee

The membership of the Firearms Consultative Committee does not adequately reflect the proper balance between the minority interests of the shooting fraternity and the majority interests in public safety. If such a body is to continue, its composition must be radically altered so as to include input from public health and medical experts, victims groups, local community leaders and other interested parties.

9. International Perspective

GCN proposes the setting up of an inter-departmental Firearms Task Force to ensure that the UK’s commitment to non-proliferation of guns at home is reflected in its actions and policies abroad

There are currently a number of international efforts to restrict the proliferation of guns throughout the world (see Appendix III). The UK’s domestic gun laws are regarded in most countries as “the gold standard”. However, we remain one of the main suppliers of weapons to other countries, particularly in the developing world.

Since gun control cannot be regarded as a purely domestic issue it is vital to have an inter-departmental group to pursue all related aspects e.g. international co-operation on illegal trafficking, pursuance of international regulation, instruments and treaties, the use of development aid to remove weapons from post conflict situations and the establishment of clear restrictions on guns for export. Such matters suggest the involvement of the Home Office, Foreign Office, Ministry for International Development and the Department of Trade and Industry.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


APPENDIX I
COMBAT OR PRACTICAL SHOOTING WITH PUMP- ACTION SHOTGUNS

Background
The history of this ‘sport’ appears to begin in the 1930s with the advent of combat pistol courses for the FBI. These courses departed from conventional bull's-eye shooting and sought to impart tactical skills and the realistic use of the handgun. They were intended to improve the combat capability of the military and security services and it was only in the 1950s that groups like the Bear Valley Gunslingers of California were established with the avowed purpose of introducing realism and variety into sporting pistol shooting.

The International Practical Shooting Confederation (IPSC) was founded at the International Combat Pistol Conference held in Columbia in May 1976. The word ‘Combat’ was dropped in recognition of the fact that even in the USA it was seen as politically incorrect and offensive. However, nothing else changed and the IPSC is today arguably the world’s most popular method of training military, paramilitary, police and civilians to shoot fellow human beings in close quarters combat. It is working hard to attain Olympic recognition and is the fastest growing of all the shooting disciplines. The more respectable it is, the more difficult it becomes to ban the weapons involved. In the USA it is seen as one of the strongest bulwarks against the banning of semi-automatic firearms and in the UK it offers the main legitimate opportunity to use pump action shotguns.

On the sensitive question of targets, the IPSC is moving away from the traditional humanoid target towards a new ‘Classic’ target. In response to criticisms from devotees of the old system, Nick Alexakos, President of the IPSC recently wrote

“ A common misconception is that the proposed target is ‘ headless’. Not so. The Classic has all the same features as the current target. It can ‘peek’ over or around walls. It can be used in exactly the same manner as the current target ……”

The case for a ban on combat or practical shooting

There is understandable public revulsion to an activity which so clearly encourages participants to develop their killing skills in realistic situations and which may feed the fantasies of socially inadequate or unstable people. Courses of fire or stages are designed to resemble the fantasy of the day such as ‘ Save the Bank’ , ‘the Bodyguard’, House Clearance’, ‘Carjacked by Gang Members’ , 'Cartel House Raid’.

As a weapon, the pump action shotgun is unacceptably dangerous. It is associated in the public mind with violent crime and gang warfare. It serves no legitimate purpose in civil society.

The fact that ‘practical’ shooting is the fastest growing shooting ‘sport’ internationally is in itself a cause for concern. In post- conflict areas of the world where extensive proliferation of combat weapons threatens the stability of civil society, the presence of a regional branch of the IPSC can serve only to fuel violence and lawlessness. Other countries now look to the UK as a source of inspiration for its tight gun controls and we have a responsibility to lead the way by banning this sort of shooting. In addition, we should do all we can to ensure that it never becomes an Olympic sport as it clearly contravenes the sporting ideals associated with the Olympic movement.

Despite their claims it is used for sporting-clays as well-LEGALLY AND SENSIBLY-and this proves what sort of ,total and utter crap we have to tolerate, in the UK-BECAUSE OF THOSE MORONS.

 

[sterling180]

How long are arm-brace for an LBR? I have used one before,but don't own one as yet.I can't really remember the lengths of the wrist-braces,that accompany them.

 

[sterling180]

There is understandable public revulsion to an activity which so clearly encourages participants to develop their killing skills in realistic situations and which may feed the fantasies of socially inadequate or unstable people. Courses of fire or stages are designed to resemble the fantasy of the day such as ‘ Save the Bank’ , ‘the Bodyguard’, House Clearance’, ‘Carjacked by Gang Members’ , 'Cartel House Raid’.

This view is fair enough,on its own-because unfortunately you do get nutcases,who go to shooting clubs, to hone their "shooting/killing skills,to kill for pleasure".Unfortuantely(For the GCN) most people arn't like that at all and the main reason for discouraging nutters from their clubs-is so that those unpleasant individuals don't bring the shooting-sports community into disrepute-hence the rule "If you are into "Rambo fantasies",then you will be shown the door and be told in simple terms,"never to return AGAIN,BYE".

There are people who are socially inadequate and weird that go to these clubs,because guns give them an ego extention-to boost their position in society and the bigots in the GCN are trying to white-wash our activities and are freely admitting it.

As a weapon, the pump action shotgun is unacceptably dangerous. It is associated in the public mind with violent crime and gang warfare. It serves no legitimate purpose in civil society.

Pump-action shotguns are used for hunting and pest-control purposes in the UK,so this rubbish about them being used in crime only applies to illegal weapons used by drug gangs.The Yardies have glamourised the image of using guns,to get what they want-by force-so the problem lies with them and not licensed-shooters.

 

[1 old 0311]

How were you paid for your firearms? Was it a flat rate, or were you paid the market value?

Kevin

 

[Stand_Watie]

A perfect complement to the "what are you compensating for" thread


***
Last night i dug your picture out from our old dresser drawer
I set it on the table and i talked to it 'til four
I read some old love letters right up 'til the break of dawn
Yeah i've been sittin' alone diggin' up bones

diggin'up bones,i'm diggin' up bones,digging up bones
Exhuming things that better left alone
I'm resurrecting memories of love that's dead and gone
Yeah tonight i'm settin'alone diggin'up bones

 

[G36-UK]

(a) Muzzle-loading weapons

GCN urges the retrospective prohibition of muzzle-loaders within the provisions of UK firearms legislation

Muzzle-loading pistols were not included in the 1997 legislation, on the specific grounds that they require the individual loading of bullets. Subsequent reportage [1] has made clear that many varieties of muzzle-loader can be loaded with great speed, and also that they are capable of firing many shots in rapid succession. Muzzle-loading pistols produced in the United States are now being openly marketed in the United Kingdom, notably in the pages of the firearms magazines and gun shops. It is not at all clear that legislators in 1997 understood that the muzzle-loader pistol has this capacity or that, if they had known this, they would not have classified the muzzle-loader, for all practical and public safety purposes, as a handgun, and thereby subject to the nationwide ban.

I told my stoner friend about this bit. He wants to know where they get whatever they're smoking, because it's obviously a great high.

Do these guys ever think before talking, and do the actually believe this sh*te?

Makes me think the Trials of Truth wasn't such a bad idea after all.

 

[sterling180]

I told my stoner friend about this bit. He wants to know where they get whatever they're smoking, because it's obviously a great high.

Do these guys ever think before talking, and do the actually believe this sh*te?

Well the content of that article is so bad,that they forgot to include semi-automatic .22 rifles and shotguns.Does this mean that they should still remain legal,or not?

I personally think that it is a blatent,pathetic, attempt to rid the country of guns-exept for official work purposes and clay-pigeon shooting matches.I think that it is unfortunate that the Scottish Police forces are exeptionally hostile to gun owners-because of Dunblane.Not that it doesn't happen in England and Wales-as well.

What made me laugh out loud,was that Labour considered restoring certain target-pistol disciplines and then the GCN,were told of this and Labour scrapped it.Its time that the GCN,were finally put in their place.
If they wanted to do their research PROPERLY,then they should go to the nearest clay-pigeon shooting-ground and see for themselves,who uses pump-action shotguns-and for what purposes.

By the way,I had a laughing fit,when I first read that article on their website.

Its a case of, Sorry mate,its just too dangerous.

 

[Boom-stick]

I really wish I hadn't read that GCN post, it's left me in a bit of a depressed state.


I think I need to cheer myself up by getting some more veriations on my FAC, what do you think?, a semi and pump 12g's, a .308, a moderated .223 AR15
Perhaps a moderator for my new browning buckmark pistol??
Wouldn't want to damage my hearing now, would I

 

[quazi]

Do you, perhaps, have statistics on the number of violent criminals who belong to gun clubs? I'd be willing to bet it is very low.

 

[Boom-stick]

Do you, perhaps, have statistics on the number of violent criminals who belong to gun clubs? I'd be willing to bet it is very low.

violent criminals can't join gun clubs, uk clubs check with Police to see if you're a suitable person.

Christ knows how I got through

 

[sterling180]

Do you, perhaps, have statistics on the number of violent criminals who belong to gun clubs? I'd be willing to bet it is very low.

Kenneth Noye-an organized mobster,who was a suspect in the 1983,Brinks Matt Bullien heist-belonged to a couple of gun clubs.He was under surveillence,by the Flying Squad(Robbery Squad/Serious and Organized detectives,who are armed)and the anti-terrorist squad-in 1985.


Noye owned several licensed firearms legally.Those firearms were not used for criminal purposes,but for recreational purposes.He even attended a practical-shooting event,which was organized by Kent Constabulary-in 1983.

He killed Detective Constable John Fordham-who was staking-out his propert in West Kingsdown,Kent-by stabbing him,a number of times with a knife-whilst his wife Brenda made ready Noye's shotgun.

The Flying Squad move in and arrested Noye,but later on he was cleared of the officers murder-because he claimed "self defence"-much to the annoyance of Fordham's family.

11 years later he murdered Stephen Cameron-a 19 year old Plumber,in Swanley Kent-and fled to Spain-where he was eventually arrested