Can I sell a gun with a known defect?

[Bazoo]

So what is the ethical limit of jamming. Say I have a 1911 that jams once every 100 rounds. Do I need to discuss that when selling to the gun store? What if it jams every other mag? What if it won't feed Winchester white box ammo but is fine with others?

 

[Bazoo]

We had a smith and Wesson m&p9c. It misfired with Winchester white box ammo. I tried two lot numbers of it. It misfired several out of a mag.

I contacted smith and they called it back and repaired it and returned it with a note saying to only shoot federal or Hornady ammo through it.

When I tested it, it misfired with the same Winchester ammo.

I took it to the gun store, told them about it as I was trading it in. They said something about Winchester being crap ammo and gave me a fair price. The rest of that ammo fired through other guns no issue.

I hope the next owner was a handloader with a large stock of federal primers.

 

[ontarget]

I traded a defective SP101 with full disclosure.
What was the defect you ask?
Too damn heavy for a 5 shot revolver!

 

[trackskippy]

If you did something to the gun, especially if it was something that caused a safety issue, Id say yea. Just because the gun doesn't work when you shoot it, or isn't accurate when you shoot it, really doesn't mean anything.

Ive bought my share of used guns and have had the occasional issue here and there. I go into to knowing that might happen, and most of the time, its a learning experience on my end, and in a couple of ways. One, teaches you to pay better attention when you look at the gun, although just looking cant tell you everything. Second, you get to learn how to fix things, as long as it isn't something above your pay grade.

A little while back here I bought a nice Browning HP at a local shop. Looked to be close to spotless and NIB. Seems the previous owner thought he was a trigger tuner, and did some fiddling.

First time I dropped the slide on a loaded mag, it fired a round into the ground in front of me and the hammer followed the slide down. ***? So, dummy that I am, I thumbed back the hammer and gave it another go. That time, I got a 4 or 5 round burst out of it. That was that. Ended up replacing the sear and spring, and all is good. Easy enough job, and I learned a little more.

Next time I saw the dealer I got it from, I told him the next time he sees whoever brought it in to sell or trade, to kick them in the ass and tell them it was from me. I told him the gun was unsafe and what had happened. He just kind of looked at me and shrugged.

But, that's what happens when you buy used guns, and you need to understand that going in.

I also dont usually buy used guns that haven't been cleaned and/or are excessively cruddy. I usually ask them to run a patch down an obviously heavily cruddy bore, at least to try and see what Im getting into. Ive been burned a couple of times there, and learned my lesson.

I also wont offer or pay anything close to what they are asking either. If you cant bother to even try and clean something before you sell it, and its obvious that's how you treat things, what else can I expect? Im certainly not going to pay for it.

 

[buck460XVR]

Of course. As long as you represent the item honestly then it is ethical to sell them.

^^^This. Ethics. Also comes down to how would you want to be treated as a buyer. Would you want to buy something that has issues without knowing what those issues are?

 

[hso]

^
and there are folks that want to buy a gun with "issues" looking for the opportunity to get a great deal and correct it.

I bought every KelTec I could find from dissatisfied owners. Much of the time it was an ammunition or magazine problem that was easily "fixed". If it was more serious I sent it to KT and the fixed it without charge and gave it a "fluff and buff" before sending it back.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Full disclosure. Bought my WWII P-38 in 1985, at a good price, it was "broken". A new firing pin and spring-$5 at the time-a half hour's work, been shooting fine ever since.

 

[wiscoaster]

Full disclosure. Bought my WWII P-38 in 1985, at a good price....,

Hah hah!! I thought you meant THIS:

View attachment 1050897

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Nope, don't have a pilot's license. And if it doesn't have the nose guns I'm not interested.

 

[beag_nut]

Nope, don't have a pilot's license. And if it doesn't have the nose guns I'm not interested.

Came equipped with 20 mm cannon, and (4) .50 caliber machine guns. Is that enough firepower? Its only defects were weird characteristics during takeoff, and less than stellar high-altitude capability.

 

[deadeye dick]

The Jap's sure hated them.Alway's loved that plane.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Yes, it was what they used on the Yamamoto mission. IIRC Richard Bong, our long forgotten "Ace of Aces" flew the P-38.
Another "broken" gun I rescued was a "Civil War musket"-turned out to be an M1888 45-70. No tension on the hammer, I was told the mainspring was broken. It was the sear, a replacement, a half hour's work restored it.

 

[243winxb]

I have bought guns in a bag. Owners take them apart & can't put it back together. Or they lost a part. If the price is right, it will sell, working or not.

 

[Mosin77]

I think it depends on the buyer. “Gun guy?” Sure. Disclose known issues honestly and sell it. But if it’s obvious the person interested knows little about guns and wouldn’t be able to fix or even maybe perceive the problem… I wouldn’t sell them that gun.

 

[Bazoo]

I have a buddy that describes some guns as "only jams a little" Those are what he calls "keepers". You can guess at the rate of jams for the trade fodder.

Course I seen him sell a good gun because he watched a bad review on YouTube.

 

[mjsdwash]

yea, I've bought and sold defectives with disclosure. Neither side has ever been disappointed.

 

[wiscoaster]

I think it depends on the buyer. “Gun guy?” Sure. Disclose known issues honestly and sell it. But if it’s obvious the person interested knows little about guns and wouldn’t be able to fix or even maybe perceive the problem… I wouldn’t sell them that gun.

I think that's a very responsible and sensible distinction, but not one you can make unless - and only unless - it's a private sale. You have no control over who buys a consignment sale through a dealer or an auction sale through a web site.

 

[Mosin77]

I think that's a very responsible and sensible distinction, but not one you can make unless - and only unless - it's a private sale. You have no control over who buys a consignment sale through a dealer or an auction sale through a web site.

Very true. If I were consigning a gun at a dealer I’d make sure the dealer knows the issue and agrees to disclose to interested parties.

 

[tarosean]

Course I seen him sell a good gun because he watched a bad review on YouTube.

Wow
Why the heck would someone's opinion of what your holding in your grubby paws mean anything?

 

[toivo]

Yep. Full disclosure. No way anybody gets their feelings hurt if it’s very clear.

This. People buy things for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes they want to tinker. Full disclosure is the way.

 

[Spats McGee]

I'd go with full disclosure. When I sell a gun, I want to be happy with the price, and I actually hope that the buyer is happy with the purchase, too. If I'm lucky, I'll get an opportunity to trade with them in the future, and if they think I cheated them, that's not going to happen.

At the same time, the lawyer in me splits hairs on what is a "defect." My being unhappy with my targets isn't necessarily a defect. I shoot my Shield+ far better than I ever shot my G19, but that didn't make the G19 defective.

 

[Thomasss]

Got a CVA .45 cal. rifle kit for $20. My brother said he didn't know how to assemble it. The box said "All you need is a screw driver, chisel and power drill." Ya right. 3 years later and $50 in missing parts and my first shot hit the bulls-eye at 50 yards. Nice squirrel gun.

 

[whughett]

As known by seller. "Defect" is probably not the proper legal term. There is no known "defect" per the usual legal definition. "Less than 100% reliable functionality" would probably be the proper description, but I'm not aware of any legal or marketing definition for that condition.

A buyer who's not specifically advised to the contrary generally presumes that the sold item functions 100%.

Any auto loader ever manufactured will on occasion fail to feed or fire and eject. 99 44/100% of that can be traced to ammo used or a failure of the owner/operators lack of maintenance.
Personally I would not list it as defective unless it was an obvious mechanical problem. JMO.

 

[huntsman]

At best I think the OP should say the gun doesn’t run FOR HIM, more than that is pure speculation. Unless of course he can document failures.

 

[wiscoaster]

At best I think the OP should say the gun doesn’t run FOR HIM, more than that is pure speculation. Unless of course he can document failures.

No, sorry, I disagree. That's not strong enough. I can honestly state that the failures have nothing to do with me. And that's what I'd want the buyer to know.