Can LE tell if you CCW from plates?

[Jason_G]

I was wondering if LEOs could tell whether or not you are registered as a CCW holder by running your plates on their system. I'm sure it might vary state to state, so I may not be able to get a concrete answer here, but I was curious. The reason is, I had a peculiar "stop & pull over" episode a while back that I have been trying to figure out. I cannot figure out why I was pulled over, and the LEO did not say. I am wondering if he might have pulled me over just to see if I would notify or not. I never really thought about that until the video of the officer from Ohio started circulating, but now it has me wondering. I'm really just looking for an answer from LEOs here as to whether that is something that a LEO would even do.

Here's how the whole thing happened, if you're interested:

My wife and I had went to a burger drive-in to grab something to take back home and eat, and as I was pulling out of the burger joint I noticed a Sheriff's Deputy unit at the red light next to the restaurant. He was going the same direction I was about to be going as I pulled out in front of him. Light changed after I pulled out, and he was then behind me about ten car lengths or so, with no other traffic on the road. Of course, I was on my P's and Q's behind the wheel, being sure to obey the speed limit, etc. All tags, registrations, etc. were up to date. I keep driving home, about a twelve mile stretch, and the Deputy is behind me the entire way, staying back behind me a pretty good ways, I guess to look inconspicuous. The burger joint was out in the sticks, but I am now in the city, where Sheriff's Dept. usually stays out of things (even thought they still have jurisdiction obviously) and allows City Police Dept. to handle anything, so I am figuring that he is about to pull me over. I keep obeying the speed limits, etc., all the way to where I turn into my driveway, which also happens to connect to a convenience store parking lot. As I am putting on my turn signal to turn into my driveway, he, as I was expecting, lights me up. I pull into the parking lot that is connected to my driveway, and wait on him to come to my window. There is another vehicle in the parking lot, which looks to be having car trouble, and has the hood up next to the water/air station. The driver is out of the vehicle looking at his engine bay. I see the deputy also notices him, but doesn't seem to pay him much attention, and then he walks over to my window, introduces himself as a Sheriff's Deputy, and asks for license, registration, and proof of insurance. I tell him "Yes sir, but before I do that, I need to inform you that I am armed. I have a permit for the weapon in my wallet." He says "Okay, where is the weapon?" I tell him that it is on my right hip, and he asks me to remove it and set it on the dash. I complied, and as I do so, he says "Hang on a second," and walks over to the other car that has the hood up. He speaks to the other fella for about three minutes or so, and then comes back over to me and says, "Okay, you're free to go." I didn't waste any time, and went on to my house.

The reason I even have any questions about this is that I was under the impression that it was illegal for a LEO to pull you over without reason. Now I'm not saying that he had no reason to pull me over, maybe there was a car that matched the description of mine or something, but it just seemed a little weird that he would follow me twelve miles into the city, light me up, and then let me go as soon as I notify. Especially when I know I hadn't violated any traffic laws.

Anyone have any thoughts on it?

Jason

 

[CoRoMo]

Yes, depends on the state, but IIRC, Colorado LEO acquires that information once they run your drivers license info, not your plate. I may be wrong though, I don't know. It may even depend county by county within a state.

All I do know is that I've never notified the officers who have pulled me over while I was carrying. I was mostly busy trying to get out of the ticket and didn't remember that I was armed. Anyway, they never brought it up either, BUT... a guy I know, who certainly has a carry permit, told me that he was pulled over and didn't notify the LEO because he was not carrying. When the officer came back to have him sign the ticket, he asked if this guy was carrying. He apparently acquired the info during one form of data search during that stop.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I would think it would be possible in just about any state. They call in the license plate number and the name and adress of the registered owner is returned. Then they run the name through either the state maintained datablase or through the issuing agency for CPLs and they should be able to ascertain if the registered owner has been issued a CPL.

The only hiccup is that the LEO has no idea if the registered owner of the vehicle is driving or not, or even in the vehicle at all.

If you have out-of-state license plates, it might take a little while to make all the inquiries.

My firearm or CPL has never been mentioned by me or by the LEO in the few speeding stops I have had the last couple of years. I really need a governor on my car .

In Washington state the Department of Licensing even maintains a database of all the handguns purchased from Washington FFLs, so once they know your name, driver's license number, or CPL number, they can obtain the serial numbers of all the handguns you have purchased from FFLs in Washington.

 

[buddyemily]

YES

 

[Bozwell]

If you have an NC CC permit and get pulled in NC, they can definitely tell you have the permit by running the plates. If you have an NC permit and get pulled in a state in which we have full reciprocity, they can also tell by running the plates. The state does not report out who has a permit though to states with which we don't have reciprocity.

 

[CoRoMo]

I say that it might vary, not only by state, but by county because here in Colorado, permits are issued by each county's sheriff's dept. Also, these sheriffs have been able to enter, at their discretion, permit holders' information into a statewide database. Fortunately, as of July 1st of this year, sheriffs are no longer allowed to do this and the database was also required by law to be wiped clean of concealed weapon permit holder data. What's not fortunate is that some of the sheriffs are not abiding by the law.

You can read some more about it here: http://www.rmgo.org/latest-news/call-your-sheriff

I live in a county that is listed as one that has not previously participated in entering this information into that database. That sounds good, but the guy I posted about earlier also lives in this county, and that officer definitely knew that he was a permit holder.

Who knows.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

Now I'm not saying that he had no reason to pull me over, maybe there was a car that matched the description of mine or something

A buddy of mine got cuffed because a leaf got stuck on his license plate at just the right angle so that a 0 became an 8, which apparently made it come back stolen. Once the cop gave it a real close look he noticed the leaf, apologized for the confusion, pointed it out to my buddy and sent him on his merry way.

 

[bikemutt]

I just examined my WA CPL, it has my driver's license right there on the front. They can surely match a plate to a driver's license ID, ergo, for WA at least, even the dumbest computer system could connect those dots

However, I don't believe we have a duty to inform here. I have not been put to the test yet, knock wood, so I'm not certain what I'll do when that day comes. Knowing my luck it will be one of those days when the wife and I are off to the range with a enough pistols and ammo in the back to start a small war

 

[Wolfebyte]

Texas - Not linked to LP of vehicle.

 

[Zoogster]

In some states they can.


What is the point of it? Spouses share vehicles, teenagers and family may borrow the vehicle, friends, etc
People with permits may be using the spouse without a permit's vehicle, a rental car, company car, etc
So people with no firearm are on record as in a vehicle with one, and people with a firearm are in vehicles not on record as having a permit holder.

While if someone illegally carries, like the felons who are carrying are doing, there is no record of it.



What is wrong with these states with a duty to inform, tying information to licenses or cars, and similar methods of trying to keep tabs on who could be a threat that is following the law, when it does nothing to inform them of people who are the most likely sources of danger?
Obviously cops should consider everyone potentially armed, especially those not on record as having a legal permit to carry.

 

[NavyLCDR]

However, I don't believe we have a duty to inform here.

This is the only duty you have, in Washington state:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050

RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.
(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

Don't ask, don't tell; and don't tell unless asked!

 

[raddiver]

I know in KY its relayed when the plates are called in.

 

[Jason_G]

What is wrong with these states with a duty to inform, tying information to licenses or cars, and similar methods of trying to keep tabs on who could be a threat that is following the law, when it does nothing to inform them of people who are the most likely sources of danger?

Yeah, I know. I can see the "duty to inform" as being a good thing as well though. I mean, it could potentially protect you as well as the officer. Let's say you get pulled over and you go for your wallet to get your license, LEO gets a glimpse of a weapon, and thinks you're about to pull on him. If you had notified, the situation would most likely be avoided. Not likely to happen, but it's not unthinkable. Past that, I agree with you.

Jason

 

[Vermonter]

"The reason I even have any questions about this is that I was under the impression that it was illegal for a LEO to pull you over without reason."

They can always come up with a reason.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Texas - Not linked to LP of vehicle.

So, you are saying that in Texas, when the officer calls in a license number he does not get a name and address of the registered owner? And then the officer has no way of calling in the name and address that is returned to determine if a CHL is issued to that name?!?

 

[MyGreenGuns]

Its connected

NAVY ~ I think that (WA RCW) means you need to show the license IF ASKED. I never volunteer that info.

Shortly after I got my CC licence I was pulled over for going the speed limit. The first thing the cop asked was "Do you have a firearm in the vehicle?" I handed him my license and my CPL and replied, "YES, its in the glovebox." He half drew his own gun and asked me to put it on the dash, I simply said, "I BELIEVE it would be safer if we both left our weapons where they were. He was making me nervous, with all the cops shooting civis around here I was NOT going to have a weapon in my hand. He did not ask for registration or insurance, he did not tell me why I had been pulled over. He stood there half drawn for two minutes I swear. Then he told me I should go home.

Another time I got pulled over as I was leaving a gas station parking lot. I had driven 25 ft between the exit and a red light, driving like the old man I am. The officer pulled in behind me and put the lights on. When the light turned green I pulled into the first available parking lot. He asked for my license and then told me I was swerving recklessly. I had only made 1 turn. A right hand turn, into the 1st lane and had immediately stopped. As I handed him my registration and insurance, he too was going for his gun. I made eye contact with him, let him SEE that I had noticed his movement for his gun, and asked, "You aren't going to go 'Officer Meade' on me are you?" He pretty much threw everything back at me and stomped back to his car.

(TANGENT)
If you do not know. Officer Troy Meade murdered Niles Meservey while on duty. There was controversy on this issue, I dont want to hear it. I have copies of the police and court records. Niles Meservey was a friend of the family. HE WAS -NOT- A SAINT. He should -NOT- have been driving. But he did not deserve to die.

The quick version of this story is as follows:
Niles was at a bar drinking. He got too drunk. When he went to leave the bartender told him not to drive. Niles went to his car anyway. Meade arrived to a drunk call to find him parked legally, still in the parking spot.
When approached Niles started the car to roll down the electric windows 2" and talked with the officers. Niles turned the car off after being prompted to, but turned it back on later. When he made a motion toward the gearshift, Meade put a tazer thru the window and applied two applications. The car, now in gear lurched forward, high-centering on the parking curb, against the fence.

The time between 1st tazer application and last of eight fired rounds was 21 seconds, 11 of that being the tazer. Niles was hit 7 times in the back and died on the scene.

To quote the OPS Final report: "In the circumstances, escalation from the Taser to a deadly weapon in 21 seconds is unfathomable."

Niles never made any attempt engage any officer in physical confrontation. Niles gave NO indication that he had a firearm or weapon that he might use. He had NOT commited a felony. He had harmed noone.

Meade never gave warning to the use of deadly force. He did not try and evade as he had been trained. He did not try to use less-lethal options. He instead, fired into a moving vehicle, which is a NO NO.

I say again, Niles was NOT a saint. But he was not a BAD GUY. He should have woke up in a drunk tank, with his mangled car in the impound yard.

If I were to shoot a burgler 7 times in the back, it would be murder.
Meade got two years of full pay, while suspended (Paid vacation?). He was officially fired July 1, 2011. This event took place June 10, 2009.

This is why I am hyper cautious around Police Officers.

 

[langenc]

Shortly after I got my CC licence I was pulled over for going the speed limit. The first thing the cop asked was "Do you have a firearm in the vehicle?" I handed him my license and my CPL and replied, "YES, its in the glovebox." He half drew his own gun and asked me to put it on the dash, I simply said, "I BELIEVE it would be safer if we both left our weapons where they were. He was making me nervous, with all the cops shooting civis around here I was NOT going to have a weapon in my hand. He did not ask for registration or insurance, he did not tell me why I had been pulled over. He stood there half drawn for two minutes I swear. Then he told me I should go home.
copied from #16

GO HOME?? WHY? for exercising your constitutionally guaranteed right??

He should have been fired!!

 

[NavyLCDR]

NAVY ~ I think that (WA RCW) means you need to show the license IF ASKED. I never volunteer that info.

Yes, that is exactly what that WA RCW means. Which is why I posted:

Don't ask, don't tell; and don't tell unless asked!

Your "duty" in Washington is to produce your CPL when demanded by an officer.

 

[armoredman]

Nope, no way at all to tell in AZ, so every officer simply assumes that any person is armed. With no permit required, that's kind of hard to do nowadays.

 

[Wolfebyte]

So, you are saying that in Texas, when the officer calls in a license number he does not get a name and address of the registered owner? And then the officer has no way of calling in the name and address that is returned to determine if a CHL is issued to that name?!?

Semi correct..

there are different databases that hold information in Texas. Running the plate alone will not provide any information about a Texas CHL holder.
Running a Tx DL will not give the officer any information about a Texas CHL. The database that houses the CHL information is located in the TCIC portion of the return. TCIC gives back Texas information, Texas Wanted, Texas Protective Order, and Texas CHL.

So for an officer to obtain CHL information, the person must be run through TCIC to query that database. No some MDT's have software written so if an officer runs a DL, it will automatically take that information (Name/DOB) and submit it to TCIC/NCIC and then the officer would get the CHL information.

 

[AirForceShooter]

Florida CCW is not tied to your D/L.
The LEO stopping you has no idea if you have a CCW.
We also don't have any form of gun registration.
If a LEO runs the gun, the only thing he's looking for is to see if it's been reported stolen.

AFS

 

[627PCFan]

Per a state trooper in VA, they can tell if you have a permit by your plates or drivers liscence.

 

[avs11054]

Nope, no way at all to tell in AZ, so every officer simply assumes that any person is armed. With no permit required, that's kind of hard to do nowadays.

Actually, LEOs can tell in AZ by running somebody's plate if the person has a CCW permit. It sounds like this is the case in most states. But, everyone is presumed to be carrying now anyways because the requirement for a CCW permit is gone.

 

[Art Eatman]

In Texas, there may have been a change, but when CHL first began it was required that the CHL be shown along with the driver's license when stopped for a traffic violation. The cop would run the plates for the ID of the owner. Returning info included the CHL as well as the other data.

With computers in cop cars now, the LEO does his own info gathering without having to actually need a comeback from the dispatcher.

As is common in these threads, the information available to LEOs varies with state laws and with jurisdictional budgets. No "One size fits all."

 

[Wolfebyte]

In Texas, there may have been a change, but when CHL first began it was required that the CHL be shown along with the driver's license when stopped for a traffic violation. The cop would run the plates for the ID of the owner. Returning info included the CHL as well as the other data.

With computers in cop cars now, the LEO does his own info gathering without having to actually need a comeback from the dispatcher.

As is common in these threads, the information available to LEOs varies with state laws and with jurisdictional budgets. No "One size fits all."

Art, it's still required to notify the officer upon request for ID if you are carrying. However, they took the penalty out for failing to display about 8 years ago.

So when you are stopped in Texas, and the officer asked for ID and Insurance, if you are carrying on or about your person and you have a Texas CHL, you are required to give him the card at the same time..