Can someone explain sights and scopes?

[Paddy]

Sorry for the daft title but can someone explain why the "decent" backup sights for an ar15 cost as much as my burris tac30, or other scopes which are brilliant pieces of engineering, requiring precision glass grinding, polishing, coating, machining, electronics, and a heck of a lot more raw materials? I can buy a whole gun for less than they want for a set of iron sights.

 

[bldsmith]

Might be looking in the wrong place.

http://www.amazon.com/Flip-Front-Rear-Back-Sight/dp/B007D3P994/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1401170030&sr=8-3&keywords=buis

Can't vouch for quality but they are out there.

 

[Paddy]

I've checked out some cheaper options but they have all this far been Unusable, like, bad. So, the search continues.

 

[Davek1977]

As you are discovering, quality costs money. If you want the best, you pay for the best.

 

[Bobson]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/67...fixed-sight-set-ar-15-flat-top-aluminum-matte

Nothing garbage about these. I suppose $125 isn't "inexpensive," but they're high quality BUIS, and quite a bit cheaper than a TAC30 (I couldn't find it for under $299).

Now if you're set on flip-up BUIS, then that may be another story. For my uses, flip-up sights are unnecessary.

 

[jmr40]

The price point on good quality iron sights and good quality optics has been equal for a long time. It takes just as much precision machining, grinding, and polishing to produce an accurate and rugged iron sight as it does an optic. Maybe more. Most of the steps in optics can more easily be automated.

With sporting rifles the cheap irons they put on them aren't worth bringing home. I'd just as soon buy a rifle without them. There is a reason most no longer even come with irons.

Personally, I've found I'm better off just buying decent glass and forget about even having iron sights even on my AR's. I've never had a decent scope fail me. I have had iron sights fail.

 

[Paddy]

Yeah those Daniel ones are probably what I'll end up with. I just don't think they take anywhere near as much mfg to come up with compared to optics. And yes I was exaggerating a bit on the tac30 because it does cost a tad more but there are plenty of scopes in the 150$ range that are still light years ahead in precision than any irons I've seen.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

. It takes just as much precision machining, grinding, and polishing to produce an accurate and rugged iron sight as it does an optic. Maybe more.

No. No one is precision grinding, lapping, superfinishing, or electropolishing irons. There is no dimension on it requiring that. In optics you're holding fractions of lambda on flatness and parallelism, and arcseconds on angular. Oprtical precision requires tenths of milionths of an inch. We don't hold those kinds of tolerances on machining, not even within two magnitudes.

There's good money to be made in manufacturing. I routinely deal with parts much more complex in more exotic materials that sell for less. The current prices are what the market supports and the cost to manufacture these parts have nothing in common with what the company decides to sell them for. Free market and all that jazz.

The R&D, programming, fixturing costs pay off on the first run. Tooling is a reoccurring cost and only amount to a few bucks per part. With something as mundane as aluminum, a $50 end mil can last tens of thousands of parts, so pennies per part.

 

[denton]

Even so, good quality lenses are not as expensive as many suppose.

A few decades ago, I was Product Manager for Tektronix' line of oscilloscope cameras. I was paying a lot less for small volume custom lenses than I was for the shutters to mount them in.

If you have a good quality scope, why would you need BUIS? I've never figured that out.

Nikon makes the P223 fixed 3X scope for around $150. It seems to me to be a heck of a lot better solution than irons.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

BUIS are backup sighting systems to the primary optic. The vast majority don't -need- them per say because it's only critical on something you'll be staking your life on. In most situations it'll cut a range day short. It's mainly a rifle/carbine practice. You don't normally see BUIS on dedicated sniper rifles.

Tektronix makes a great product. I still have an old 300MHz analog scope bought second-hand.

 

[Baldman]

I found this out myself when I took the carry handle off of my AR. luckily I found a 20% off coupon for Ranier Arms so the Magpul Pro BUIS was like $80 with shipping.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'm thinking you are either expecting too much from your iron sights or too little from your scope.

A friend wanted some BUIS on his AR and went through MagPul and Troy before finally settling on a set of MagPul Pros, because he liked steel over polymer...that meant that I picked up his set of MagPul MBUS for $40

I like the BCM BUIS manufactured by Troy at about $220, which aren't even close to the cost of the OP's Burris TAC30 at $475 (MSRP) and about a third less than the discounted price of about $300

 

[drcook]

As far as precision iron sights, in BPCR circles, manufacturers are making "high end" iron sights.

http://www.montanavintagearms.com/103_longrange.html

They are very precision made.

They are just in a different venue of shooting than what most of you (the royal you,not a specific you) all are exposed to. It is quite common for folks to use these out to 1000 yards. On a clear day, you would be surprised what you can hit accurately with a good set of front and rear irons.

In fact, one group of folks shoot at a mile using iron sights

http://www.montanavintagearms.com/soule_xlr.html

 

[Paddy]

Iron sights have two purposes for me. One, any optic is rendered useless if it's raining in Oregon. We get a windy mist that just flat ruins them. Second and more importantly, I like the challenge and enjoy irons more than optic. Optics are too good. Boring.

 

[David4516]

"if it's raining in Oregon"

Does it ever stop raining in Oregon?

I put a fairly cheap BUIS on my AR-15, since I don't plan on using it much if at all. At some point I'll probably upgrade but it's not very high on my priority list. I want to get a better Red-Dot first...

Off topic, but I used to live near the Tektronix Beaverton OR location, the one on Jenkins' road. I learned how to drive a stick shift in that parking lot...

 

[dprice3844444]

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/ar15m16.aspx check here for all your backup sight needs at realistic prices

 

[dprice3844444]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200422&pf_rd_i=507846 buis angle sights

 

[Jim Watson]

Aren't the iron sights mostly made in USA?
And the scopes Oriental imports?

 

[blarby]

We get a windy mist that just flat ruins them.

It is fairly irritating.....

 

[tarosean]

Second and more importantly, I like the challenge and enjoy irons more than optic. Optics are too good. Boring.

You must be young or still have 20/20 vision. I always preferred irons till I couldn't see 100yrds..

 

[9mmepiphany]

Another challenge would be to enter some 2-gun and 3-gun matches and shooting your rifle while moving and against the clock

 

[kitsapshooter]

Y'all have it backwards. Iron sights are and have been the primary sight system on AR's for 50+ years. Optics are the backup system.
While many prefer optics iron will always be the primary system of an AR.
Anyone who disagrees is wrong.