Can the justice system be held accountable?

[joab]

Aug 30th last year my wifes was assaulted while standing at the LYNX bus stop in West Oaks mall
She was standing off the bus and a little behind it just a little outside the view of the security cameras on the bus

A young man attempted to snatch her purse but she held on to it.
Just before he did he stuck his head in the door of the bus to speak to the driver
Just before the driver heard her yelling for help he is seen in the bus video exiting the frame heading toward her.
The Ocoee detective told me that he admitted that he did it, not to snatch her purse but because he was angry that she wouldn't talk to him.

Today we went to court

I overheard the defense lawyer say that his defense was that he was not near the mall that night before the trial started. I chuckled at this in the face of the overwhelming evidence against him

The victim, my wife did great on the stand except for one small glitch.
She does not speak English well enough for this type of proceeding so we had an interpreter and through the interpreter she could not state that West Oaks Mall was in Orange County and she did state that it was not in Ocoee.
Why would this matter you ask?

The representative for the Ocoee police department, the investigating detective who got the confession, who could have established that the Mall was in fact in Ocoee which is known to be in Orange County did not bother to appear today

The bus driver who could ID the guy and also establish that the Mall was within the jurisdiction of the Orange County courts system did not bother to show up today.

The case was dismissed because the great state's attorney could not establish that the court where we now found our selves trying this case had jurisdiction in the case.

No continuance, no simple verification process an out and out dismissal of all charges.

I asked the lawyer for the state if the contempt charges that we were threatened with if we failed to appear would be filed against these two taxpayer paid employees of the people.
He said he could certainly file a writ of blah blah blah.


So far I have called the CLEO of Ocoee and demanded an explanation, they'll get back to me but claim to have been given no notice of court today
I also contacted Seminole County Chairman Carlton Henley who is the chairman of LYNX to ask him why one of his employees failed to appear, hell get back to me in a couple if days.
I also informed them that this was the first of two incidents that happened to her while riding their buses, the second time she was actually on the bus and that in neither case had we considered suing-Yet.

I have been put in contact with a lawyer whose specialty is suing orange county police depts and government entities.

I'm waiting for the anger to subside before I decide whether we go through with it or not.
Somebody has to pay for this royal screw up on my dime.

Anybody have any suggestions

The only thing I have come up with is getting copies of all pertinent reports and names and climbing the ladder to Crist if necessary

Not only has a violent criminal been set free he has been set free and emboldened, if the comments made by his crew on the way out are any indication

 

[DKSuddeth]

sorry to hear about what happened. It seems you now have a real life example of why our founding fathers placed little faith in a central government, judicial system, judges, and government in particular. I hope your wife will recover emotionally. Unfortunately, the judicial system is 'sacrosanct', meaning they will never be held accountable for dismissing justice.

 

[Kali Endgame]

Man, that seriously blows. I can't imagine how you feel. You should follow through and make sure the driver and cop are properly reprimanded. This was a pretty serious case and they didn't show up. I hate jury duty, but I drag my happy a$$ down to the court house.

Good luck with all that is on your plate.

Jon

 

[joab]

The criminal in the case before us, which just happened to be his cousin in an unrelated crime spree, showed up about two hours late.
He was ordered to compensate all the witnesses against him who showed up for their time, including the cops whether they were on duty or not. And that was before any trial started to determine his guilt or innocence in the other matters.
Even with the other state employed witnesses not showing up, how can they dismiss a case because the victim doesn't know what city she was assaulted in

The cops that showed up at the scene worked professionally and showed all the care and compassion that you would want if it was your wife or mother

The failure came from desk riders

On a bright note I was able to tell a state attorney to get his head out of his ass and call a judge a dumbass in his own courtroom with out going to jail

My wife is pushing hard for her CCW permit now.
I'm not sure how I feel about that. I just don't trust her judgment
She's carrying the UV tinted pepper spray for now

 

[asknight]

The representative for the Ocoee police department, the investigating detective who got the confession, who could have established that the Mall was in fact in Ocoee which is known to be in Orange County did not bother to appear today

The bus driver who could ID the guy and also establish that the Mall was within the jurisdiction of the Orange County courts system did not bother to show up today.

The case was dismissed because the great state's attorney could not establish that the court where we now found our selves trying this case had jurisdiction in the case.

No continuance, no simple verification process an out and out dismissal of all charges.

That's exactly what the justice system should do.

Pray tell, sir, why you didn't subpoena your witnesses? Isn't that one of the fundamental things that should occur when a plaintiff is filing charges on a defendant?

:banghead: :banghead:

Even with the other state employed witnesses not showing up, how can they dismiss a case because the victim doesn't know what city she was assaulted in

You already answered your own question with:

The case was dismissed because the great state's attorney could not establish that the court where we now found our selves trying this case had jurisdiction in the case.

My wife is pushing hard for her CCW permit now.
I'm not sure how I feel about that. I just don't trust her judgment
She's carrying the UV tinted pepper spray for now

You don't trust her judgment? She chose to be with you... and you don't trust her judgment?
She has apparently just went through a robbery attempt on herself, and now wants to defend herself, and you're questioning her judgment? Since when do we get to deny citizens their Bill of Rights because we "don't trust their judgment?"

I'm going to bow out of this thread now before my blood pressure rises to unsafe levels and I inadvertently take the low road.

 

[Kindrox]

You don't trust her judgment? She chose to be with you... and you don't trust her judgment?
She has apparently just went through a robbery attempt on herself, and now wants to defend herself, and you're questioning her judgment? Since when do we get to deny citizens their Bill of Rights because we "don't trust their judgment?"

I don’t know this guy’s wife, but I have a wife of my own. We have discussed her getting a CHL and SHE is passing on it for now, but if she did, I would not give her a gun without several training classes (the CHL class in TX being one of them).

I would not because a) she did not grow up in a gun owning household and is not yet comfortable enough with a handgun to put her on the street with one, and b) she is not yet comfortable even thinking about possible situations in which she might find herself, and then thinking about what choice to make.

I would like her to get past these two issues and get her CHL but for now she would rather not get past them, so she does not want one. We don’t know this man’s wife. I for one am against people carrying who are not physically and mentally ready to carry.

For example, would you send your wife out with a gun if you knew that if she drew it, she would fumble with the slide/safety/whatever, not be confident in its use, and would not actually pull the trigger? Probably not.

Lets keep the blood pressure down until we know the backstory.

 

[LawBot5000]

Why on earth did they try state crimes in a municipal court? All of the things he appears to have done are defined as either felonies or misdemeanors under the Florida Statutes. How can there possibly be a question of jurisdiction?

 

[gunsmith]

if she shot the guy

the same system that lets career thugs go loose would try to nail her to the wall, I think that is why he is kind of shy about his wife packing.
Her English is poor and she may not be able to articulate why she needed to shoot some one.
Say the wrong thing to the wrong cop after a shooting and you may never get out of jail.
:banghead:

 

[geronimotwo]

i'm glad she is okay. was this case in criminal, or civil court? did your attorney subpoena the witnesses?

 

[Waitone]

Nuthin' like that nice warm feeling that floods the ol' bod when one realizes the justice system ain't.

 

[El Tejon]

geronimotwo, it was a criminal case.

Lawbot, I would assume because that county's local rules have the case in muni court. It is not jurisdiction problem; it was a venue problem.

joab, I'm glad your wife is O.K. I should probably not tell you but this kind of thing happens daily across the country.

Large population centers in Florida have tremendous problems with police responding to subpoenas. My best friend in grad school became a Dade County (Miami) Assistant State's Attorney (ASA), police would not respond to subpoenas even for heavy stuff (robbery, burglary). It was a frustrating mess and part of the reason he went to insurance defense.

I do not know why you are angry at "the system" (although I wish I had been there when you called the judge that name--do you know how I secretly long to say that sometimes?). It functioned as designed. The State failed to prove a necessary element of its case and the prosecution was rightly dismissed (at least as a matter of law). No evidence should equate to no conviction.

I am at a loss at why the ASA did not ask for a continuance and send the Sheriff out looking for the witnesses. I had to do that a couple of times (on drug cases) in my LE days.

I would think political action would get you the answers you seek. Have you called the media? When is the race for your county's State's Attorney? Does your current SA have a political opponent? Perhaps you should contact him or her?

 

[plexreticle]

This sucks for sure.

The cop and the bus driver were not subpoenaed?

 

[Thain]

I am not a lawyer, I am incapable of giving legal advice, consult an attorney.

You might consider looking into a civil suit. It worked on OJ...

 

[plexreticle]

You can go after the kid in civil court also but if he was found innocent then you won't get another criminal trial.

 

[joab]

Pray tell, sir, why you didn't subpoena your witnesses? Isn't that one of the fundamental things that should occur when a plaintiff is filing charges on a defendant?

It was a criminal case as in State of Florida vs BG the state files charges against the defendant not the victim.

You don't trust her judgment? She chose to be with you... and you don't trust her judgment?

Not sure what that has to do with anything , but she comes from a culture where revenge is acceptable.
About a year ago a drunk homeless man asked her for money he was one of those people who spray it when they say it. She wanted me to track the guy down and beat the hell out of him.
After we found out where her assailant went to school she was mad that I would not go after him
"Why have the gun you no use "?
Would you trust her judgment with a gun?

Since when do we get to deny citizens their Bill of Rights because we "don't trust their judgment?"

Since when are private citizens forced to facilitate other citizens actions against our better judgment.
My father was legally allowed to drive but he sucked at it so bad that he was a danger to himself and others so I would not help him get a license
My wife does not possess the necessary judgment in my opinion to carry a gun so I am not going o help her get one, if you can show in that BOR where I am forced to put my wife in jeopardy under those circumstances I'll go get her one tomorrow
If she wants to go get extensive training in all aspects of deadly force and gun handling then I will assist her if she can show that that training will override her base nature
I also did not carry a gun for many years because I proved that I did not have the judgment necessary to distinguish threat from insult.

Why on earth did they try state crimes in a municipal court? All of the things he appears to have done are defined as either felonies or misdemeanors under the Florida Statutes. How can there possibly be a question of jurisdiction?

Possibly because he was a juvenile, I really don't have the knowledge to answer that though

I'm glad your wife is O.K. I should probably not tell you but this kind of thing happens daily across the country.

Yeah the attorneys shoulder shrug gave me that impression. I just want to do what little I can to make it less common place if only with those involved with this case

I do not know why you are angry at "the system" (although I wish I had been there when you called the judge that name--do you know how I secretly long to say that sometimes?). It functioned as designed. The State failed to prove a necessary element of its case and the prosecution was rightly dismissed (at least as a matter of law). No evidence should equate to no conviction.

I was pretty much angry with every idiot involved now I am concentrating on whoever it was that did not get these witnesses to court
Either one could have established that the mall was in Orange county

I am at a loss at why the ASA did not ask for a continuance and send the Sheriff out looking for the witnesses. I had to do that a couple of times (on drug cases) in my LE days.

The judge made it known several times through out the day that he did not like continuances, perhaps the ASA was intimidated or maybe he thought it was an open and shut case, in which case he is an idiot I think.

I'm leaning more to the theory that his office failed to subpoena the witnesses. The Ocoee police dept is claiming to have never received one
But then I have to wonder why my wife would have if nobody else did

I would think political action would get you the answers you seek. Have you called the media? When is the race for your county's State's Attorney? Does your current SA have a political opponent? Perhaps you should contact him or her?

All I have done so far is contact the Ocoee police dept, the county chairman that heads the bus system, the county mayor and the governor's office.
My niece is affiliated with a local TV station and I'm waiting for her call now

You might consider looking into a civil suit. It worked on OJ

.These losers are judgment proof as is usually the case with purse snatchers I think

f he was found innocent then you won't get another criminal trial.

I don't think it was adjudicated one way or another, I think it was just dropped.
Could he not be charged with another crime resulting from the same action, like the Rodney King cops were