can this be?
- Thread starter mnhntr
- Start date
- Status
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
All Lee's data is copied from the powder & bullet manufactures tested data.
They have no ballistics lab themselves.
So yes, if they copied the 140 data from one manufacture, and the 142 from another manufacture, they could very well be that much different.
And you might also notice Lee's book doesn't even tell you what brand, shape, or construction of bullets they are even talking about!
If you want current H4350 data, with known bullets, from the same source & test gun, go to Hodgdons website and get it.
http://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html
rc
They have no ballistics lab themselves.
So yes, if they copied the 140 data from one manufacture, and the 142 from another manufacture, they could very well be that much different.
And you might also notice Lee's book doesn't even tell you what brand, shape, or construction of bullets they are even talking about!
If you want current H4350 data, with known bullets, from the same source & test gun, go to Hodgdons website and get it.
http://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html
rc
JohnM
Member
Hmm, I didn't know that's how Lee got the data for their manual.
I was going to pick up a copy of their latest one, but maybe not now.
I was going to pick up a copy of their latest one, but maybe not now.
ranger335v
Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2006
- Messages
- 3,797
RC is correct that Lee compiles data from other reliable sources and that is why the cost of the book is minimal. That is NOT to say the information is incorrect or sloppy; it is not.
The inconsistancy you've found is well within the expected norms. Fact is, no change we can possibly make to any book data has as much effect as the weapon it was fired in. Each manual maker, be it from powder, bullet makers or neither, lie. They all tell us exactly what they got for the listed charges IN THEIR GUNS, but each gun changes the results even if everything else is duplicated. Our guns are different from any of theirs so our results will also be different too. That's why ALL reloading manuals tell us to start low and slowly work up to book max unless excess pressure signs tell us to stop earlier; it seems a lot of people have trouble understanding that caution and just expect all book data to be spot on even tho it's clear that cannot possibly be!
Bottom line, our reloading safety lies in our own hands, not a special book or data from any other source.
The inconsistancy you've found is well within the expected norms. Fact is, no change we can possibly make to any book data has as much effect as the weapon it was fired in. Each manual maker, be it from powder, bullet makers or neither, lie. They all tell us exactly what they got for the listed charges IN THEIR GUNS, but each gun changes the results even if everything else is duplicated. Our guns are different from any of theirs so our results will also be different too. That's why ALL reloading manuals tell us to start low and slowly work up to book max unless excess pressure signs tell us to stop earlier; it seems a lot of people have trouble understanding that caution and just expect all book data to be spot on even tho it's clear that cannot possibly be!
Bottom line, our reloading safety lies in our own hands, not a special book or data from any other source.
Last edited:
JohnM
Member
I like reloading manuals, but if Lee's data is from other sources it would be kind of redundant.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Well, yes & no.
The last printing of the 2nd edition was copyrighted in 2003.
So it contains data for Alliant powders with a lot of different bullets that the current ATK owner doesn't publish any longer.
All they show you now is with Speer bullets, which is also owned by ATK.
There are also some obscure older powders listed that are hard to find data for anywhere else now days.
I must admit though that I have had a Lee 2nd edition manual for several years.
And the only time I get it down and dust it off is when I try to answer questions like this about it.
rc
The last printing of the 2nd edition was copyrighted in 2003.
So it contains data for Alliant powders with a lot of different bullets that the current ATK owner doesn't publish any longer.
All they show you now is with Speer bullets, which is also owned by ATK.
There are also some obscure older powders listed that are hard to find data for anywhere else now days.
I must admit though that I have had a Lee 2nd edition manual for several years.
And the only time I get it down and dust it off is when I try to answer questions like this about it.
rc
ranger335v
Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2006
- Messages
- 3,797
"I like reloading manuals, but if Lee's data is from other sources it would be kind of redundant. "
It would be redundant only if you had all that info at hand; I doubt anyone does. Lee collects a LOT of very helpful loading data for their manuals. And that ignores all of the other very good info contained in their book.
It would be redundant only if you had all that info at hand; I doubt anyone does. Lee collects a LOT of very helpful loading data for their manuals. And that ignores all of the other very good info contained in their book.
JohnM
Member
From what you and RC are saying, I guess I'll splurge.
I'm always on the lookout for obscure loads and different bullets.
RC I still have the old first edition Lee manual
MMCSRET
Member
The Lee book also has a lot of other highly technical information in it; such as how to determine required cast bullet hardness required for a particular application. Also how to compute a powder charge and the density of a particular powder; and a lot of other interesting reading.
Hondo 60
Member
That's kinda why I like the Loadbooks USA - One Caliber series.
Yes, it's just copied from other's data, but then it's all in one cheap reloading manual.
At $7 or so a piece, I have have 'em for almost all the calibers I reload.
They don't print one for 7.62x25 Tokarev & I just bought a Ruger 44 mag.
So on payday new 44 Spl & 44 mag manuals will be ordered.
Yes, it's just copied from other's data, but then it's all in one cheap reloading manual.
At $7 or so a piece, I have have 'em for almost all the calibers I reload.
They don't print one for 7.62x25 Tokarev & I just bought a Ruger 44 mag.
So on payday new 44 Spl & 44 mag manuals will be ordered.
FROGO207
Member
I also like the way that Lee puts it in order using the velocity and can choose a load that I want to try whether fast or slow by going up or down the list. The correct way to use any loading manual is to use it as a GUIDE to choose a safe max load with a particular set of components. You do always have to start low and work up to max. This should be as second nature to you when reloading as adding a bullet to the round IMHO.
- Status
