Can you take your gun to school?

[musher]

With a first grader to drop off and pick up at school every day this year, I have discovered that my state has NO exceptions to a prohibition on concealed (loaded) firearms on school property (even the parking lot). If I want to go on to school property, I am required to unload my firearm and place it in the trunk or in a closed container in my motor vehicle. I've no carry options if I decide to walk to the school with my child.

I am embarking on a little crusade to get an exception placed in the law for holders of concealed handgun permits. As part of my 'information gathering' I'm interested in finding out what other states allow in terms of bringing firearms onto school property. I checked up on WA, OR, and UT and discovered that they all offer exceptions for concealed firearm permit holders.

What does your state allow? I'm not so interested in LEO exceptions, since they seem to apply universally.

Let me know your state and which of the following situations below apply to you.

THANKS!


1. NO firearms allowed on school property. Period.
2. Loaded firearms not allowed on school property. (AK)
3. Loaded firearms OK in a vehicle in the parking lot, but not in the building for CC permit holders. (WA)
4. Loaded firearms are allowed anywhere to CC permit holders. (UT)
5. Loaded firearms are allowed anywhere to CC permit holders but it is an affirmative defense. (OR)
6. Anybody who wants can bring a firearm on school property and we don't need no stinking permits!

 

[Hoppy590]

isnt the no guns on school grounds a FEDERAL deal? maybe i read wrong

 

[musher]

OK, to clarify, the FEDERAL no guns in school "relaw" that was passed after the first version was tossed by the federal supreme court includes an exception for folks who are permitted under state law to carry a gun on school property.

So, it appears to me that the federal prohibition only applies if there is a state prohibition.

Here's the cite from federal law USC 18 922 q (2)

(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

 

[wdlsguy]

Texas is closest to choice 3 (Loaded firearms OK in a vehicle in the parking lot, but not in the building for CC permit holders).

 

[Mainsail]

Washington has an exception to the rule for just that purpose. You can have your concealed weapon on you if you are only dropping off or picking up your child at a school. You still can't go inside. I guess they think it is safer to leave it unattended in your car if you need to go into the school for some reason.

 

[WheelGunMom]

In Nevada, there’s no concealed carry exception for schools – the only exceptions are for peace officers, security guards, and persons “having written permission from the president of a branch or facility of the Nevada System of Higher Education or the principal of the school to carry or possess the weapon.” (See NRS 202.265(3) and 202.2673(3).)

The only “break” the CCW holder gets is a slightly lesser penalty if they are caught illegally packing on school property. CCW holders are punished for a misdemeanor, for everyone else it is a gross misdemeanor.

 

[Zoogster]

Honestly, if I were in your state I would not support that bill. The reason why is that you do not need a license to carry in Alaska, and tacking extra privelidges on to those few that choose to get one for reciprocity purposes is in essence promoting the idea that a license in your state is in fact necessary, or that those that have one are above and beyond the rest and entitled to more.

Take it a few steps further and people will eventualy be questioning why the unlicensed, 'untrained', commoner can take them where they currently can when those with a license are so much more qualified and a license is easy to register for and recieve. The rights of the unlicensed will dwindle and only those with a license will enjoy many of the 'privelidges' every Alaskan currently enjoys as a right.

You may win the battle and lose the war.

If I understand Alaska's reason for granting ccw permits it is only for reciprocity with other states and not for any real purpose. The moment your state gives any privelidges to those with a license you should remove the licensing in your state altogether because it will lead to steps backward for Alaska and rights everyone is currently believed to be entitled to. You have one of the best things going in the nation right now, and legislation like you propose is what will screw it up.

 

[shield20]

NY has NO exception on school grounds, even for permit holder, without written permission from educational facility. (I am trying to secure that currently). I do however get to ignore the fed 1000' rule, but that really only helps with parking nearby.


NOW, since this state law directly conflicts with the federal law permit exception, and since supposedly federal law is supreme, it shouldn't matter what the state says, but I ain't gonna try that out.

 

[Old Dog]

In Washington (state), one can take one's concealed handgun to school, when picking up or dropping off one's children ...

RCW 9.41.280
Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:
...
(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
...
(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student ...

(oops, missed Mainsail's earlier post, somehow)

 

[k_dawg]

In Florida, you can have a firearm in your vehicle while on school property. If you have a concealed permit, it can be on your body. Otherwise, it must be "securely encased". This does NOT mean locked up, or unloaded. Simply having it in the center console with the lid closed is sufficient.

Technically, if you have a permit, you can walk around campus with the firearm, and just do not enter any building for teaching or administration. However, this has never been upheld in court, so I would not recommend being the first person.


As with many federal laws/regulations, in-vehicle firearms on/near school property is legal federally if its legal as per the state law.

 

[Eagle103]

In MN it's only legal for a CCW holder to bring their weapon into a school if it's OK'd by the Principal. That's according to my CCW instructor who is also a school teacher.

 

[kludge]

In Indiana permit holders may pick up and drop off at a school while carrying. Same goes for long guns by anyone not prohibited from owning firearm. I can find nothing in our law that allows anything else. IOW, no locking the weapon in the car to go inside or to park in the lot. Federal law does allow locking the firearm in the car, if I'm reading it correctly. This is one place where I wish there were more clarification in Indiana law. The advice I got from a lawyer (wrote the book on Indiana gun laws) was "Don't do it." (leave the firearm locked in the car).

There is no prohibition for carry on college campus, but I would imagine that most universities have their own rules.

 

[Puddin99]

CCW in Schools

In Oregon it is legal.

166.370 Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public
building or court facility; exceptions; discharging firearm at school....

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(a) A sheriff, police officer, other duly appointed peace officers or a corrections officer while acting within the scope of employment.

(b) A person summoned by a peace officer to assist in making an arrest or preserving the peace, while the summoned person is engaged in assisting the officer.

(c) An active or reserve member of the military forces of this state or the United States, when engaged in the performance of duty.

(d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

(e) A person who is authorized by the officer or agency that controls the public building to possess a firearm or dangerous weapon in that public building.

(f) Possession of a firearm on school property if the firearm:

(A) Is possessed by a person who is not otherwise prohibited from possessing the firearm; and

(B) Is unloaded and locked in a motor vehicle."

Ken

 

[Condition Plaid]

In California the prohibition against possession of firearms in schools contains an exemption for holders of CCW Licenses.

 

[SMMAssociates]

OH says no....

Our children (and our) lives are not important....

The "permission" exception is there. There's also some kind of "transit" thing for school property due to hunting & such. On duty LE too....

Basically it's NO! for the rest of us.

Regards,

 

[pete f]

Actually Mn state law allows for the carry of loaded concealed firearms onto school property to pick up your kids, to park for attending a school function, (leaving the gun locked in the car) or other lawful purpose. You can also carry the gun into the school during school if the head person is notified and approves in writing.

Guns can be on school property at other times IF there is reason for it. That is, teaching a gun safety class, a gun show, or other defined purposes.


Minnesota also defines schools to be the school itself or property being used for a school function, IE, a community theater building or Ice rink when it used expressly for a school purpose.

(iv) that portion of a building or facility under the temporary, exclusive control of a public or private school, a school district, or an association of such entities where conspicuous signs are prominently posted at each entrance that give actual notice to persons of the school-related use.
(e) This subdivision does not apply to:
(1) active licensed peace officers;
(2) military personnel or students participating in military training, who are on-duty, performing official duties;
(3) persons authorized to carry a pistol under section 624.714 while in a motor vehicle or outside of a motor vehicle to directly place a firearm in,or retrieve it from, the trunk or rear area of the vehicle;
(4) persons who keep or store in a motor vehicle pistols in accordance with section 624.714 or 624.715 or other firearms in accordance with section 97B.045;
(5) firearm safety or marksmanship courses or activities conducted on school property;
(6) possession of dangerous weapons, BB guns, or replica firearms by a ceremonial color guard;
(7) a gun or knife show held on school property;
(8) possession of dangerous weapons, BB guns, or replica firearms with written permission of the principal or other person having general control and supervision of the school or the director of a child care center; or
(9) persons who are on unimproved property owned or leased by a child care center, school, or school district unless the person knows that a student is currently present on the land for a school-related activity.
(f) Notwithstanding section 471.634, a school district or other entity composed exclusively of school districts may not regulate firearms, ammunition, or their respective components, when possessed or carried by nonstudents or nonemployees, in a manner that is inconsistent with
this subdivision.

 

[Zach S]

Its a no-no in NC. Even for CHP holders.

The only legal way around it is that the firearm must be unloaded and in a locked container. I dont know what qualifies as a locked container, nor do I know the legal definition if unloaded.

I'm not that stupid, I know what unloaded is. CA is picky about it though... And as fopr a locked container, I think it says a trunk (an actual trunk, as in sedans and coupes, not the cargo area of a hatchback, wagon, or SUV) is considered a locked container, but I dont know about the glovebox, console, etc.

 

[Ringer]

Michigan = 3. Loaded firearms OK in a vehicle in the parking lot, but not in the building for CC permit holders.

From the Michigan State Police website http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10947--,00.html

Pistol Free Areas

Beginning July 1, 2001, individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state will be prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol in the following areas:

Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

And from packing.org

Admin note
*It is our understanding that Act 719 of July 1, 2003 has exempted parking lots as restricted areas, including school parking lots. Therefore the Drop-off/pick-up kids provision is no longer required

 

[Barr]

3 (TN), except the law reads that you must be coming to pick up child (waiting in car) and then drive off with child. Does not sound like you can park the car with a gun in it out in the parking lot without you present in the car.

 

[musher]

This is great, you guys are saving me a quite bit of legwork here. Thanks especially for the cites in your state code. My plan is to build a table of all 50 states organized by level of restriction together with cites to the state code for each, so your info is helping a lot.

I'm especially excited to learn that some states like CA are less restrictive than AK. That usually chaps the hide of a number of our representatives!

Zoogster, you have put your finger on my other problem. I agree with you that placing an exception for concealed handgun permit holders only is somewhat troubling.

Reality intrudes however. I haven't approached my representative yet about submitting legislation. I want to have my ducks in a row before I do that. The consensus so far from folks I have contacted who have been involved in concealed carry legislation here is that allowing anyone to carry a firearm on school property wouldn't get much traction. A CHP/parent exception MIGHT fly, especially if I can provide evidence that it is a common exception in other states.

The other problem for the state if a CHP is not required to carry on school property is that pesky federal statute. The new version hasn't been tested in court (that I know of) but it specifically requires that an individual have a permit issued by the state to be exempt from the provision.

It is somewhat encouraging that, since the CHP was created in Alaska, things have followed a course opposite to that you have suggested--that of gradually removing restrictions for CHP holders, then removing the requirement for the CHP entirely. At present, it doesn't seem likely to me that concealed carry law in Alaska will become more restrictive.

If anyone has info about states that havent yet been mentioned, I'd like to hear it.

 

[Lupinus]

if all else fails pick your kid up at the curb or the nearist possible place off school grounds. Walking an extra few yards wont hurt him.

 

[SJG26]

PA - grey area---test case anyone???

http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA912.html

"§ 912. Possession of weapon on school property.
(a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nun-chuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.

(b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.

(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose."



One would think a STATE ISSUED PERMIT FOR SELF-DEFENSE is a lawful purpose

 

[tinygnat219]

VA allows Conceal and Carry Permit holders to have a Concealed Handgun in the car when they drop the child off. That's about it though.

 

[Snarlingiron]

This was covered in great detail in my CHL class (Texas). One of the attendees worked at the range, and was a single mom, and she had extensive questions. In Texas the school premisis means the building, not the parking lot or even the grounds. So, you may, if licensed, carry to pick up your children. I live across the street from a school, and I cross the grounds on my evening walks. I never go out walking about the neighborhood without my pistol and flashlight.

I am also wondering about the Texas traveling statute, which essentially states that anyone that is traveling may have a loaded firearm in the vehicle. Traveling is at this point defined as driving your car. There is pending legislation to strengthen this statute due to some DA's (Houston for one) have said that they are going to arrest people carrying firearms in vehicles anyway and let the courts sort it out. It seems to me this means that anyone unless otherwise prohibited from having a firearm, may have one in the vehicle when they pick up or drop off children at school.

On the other hand I have seen a few (very few) schools posted as drug free / gun free zones. I don't know where this shakes out. Anybody?

 

[kbheiner7]

Utah permit holders can carry on school grounds.

The University of Utah is fighting this - they have a no guns on school property rule, but it's a state school so it's a worthless rule.