Gun Free School Zones?

[HOME DEPOT GEORGE]

Now for the million dollar question-my neighborhood is right next to a school and most of my neighbors hunt and shoot does that make us all felons if we leave our driveways with a gun in the car/truck?

 

[Top_Gunn]

Now for the million dollar question-my neighborhood is right next to a school and most of my neighbors hunt and shoot does that make us all felons if we leave our driveways with a gun in the car/truck?

If it's a rifle or shotgun, or a pistol you don't have a permit to carry, yes, unless it's in a locked case.

It's just about impossible these days to do anything without committing a felony. Just as an example, giving anybody a children's book that was printed before 1985 is a Federal felony because the ink used in books back then had some lead in it. Harmless amounts, to be sure, but that doesn't matter. Make a paper airplane out of a sheet of paper and give it to somebody without testing it for lead (in a way that destroys the paper) and attaching a label: felony. There's a book by Harvey Silverglate,
Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent, arguing thaat most of us. on the average, commit three felonies every day. Does it matter? Will they really arrest you? Probably not, as long as you are nice to them and do and say only things that the law enforcement people approve of.

High time we took that "land of the free" nonsense out of the national anthem.

 

[Top_Gunn]

If the state you are in has reciprocity with your home state and your state also does a background check for issue then requirements for the license are substantially equal to theirs.

This is true. It's also irrelevant. The statute requires that the law enforcement authorities of the state in which the school is located check you out. If they haven't done that, you don't meet the requirements for the exclusion. Does this make sense? No. Does it matter whether it makes sense? No. If you think laws have to make sense, you have been misinformed.

 

[moooose102]

i dont know about N.H., but in Michigan, i can have the gun on me with no problem all the way into and including the school parking lot. once i step foot onto school property, the gun had better be secured though as being on school property with the gun will end me up in jail.

 

[sv51macross]

i dont know about N.H., but in Michigan, i can have the gun on me with no problem all the way into and including the school parking lot. once i step foot onto school property, the gun had better be secured though as being on school property with the gun will end me up in jail.

I thought though that possession of allowed one to OC in a Pistol-Free-Zone.

 

[swinokur]

I read the statute again carefully and no where does it say that law enforcement in the state where the school is located have to check you out. the wording is after law enforcement "verified that the individual is qualified to receive the license." I have permits from VA,UT, NV and FL and every single jurisdiction did a background check on me. As I read it, law enforcement DID verify my qualification to receive the permit and if the state where the school zone is located has reciprocity, I am "licensed" and legally allowed to carry. . No mention is made anywhere of which law enforcement entity has to verify my qualifications, nor where the license is issued originally. I still think the operative word is LICENSE.

I have provided the definition of license to clarify my point

li·cense (lsns)
n.
1.
a. Official or legal permission to do or own a specified thing. See Synonyms at permission.
b. A document, plate, or tag that is issued as proof of official or legal permission: a driver's license.
2. Deviation from normal rules, practices, or methods in order to achieve a certain end or effect.
3. Latitude of action, especially in behavior or speech. See Synonyms at freedom.
4.
a. Lack of due restraint; excessive freedom: "When liberty becomes license, dictatorship is near" (Will Durant).
b. Heedlessness for the precepts of proper behavior; licentiousness.
tr.v. li·censed, li·cens·ing, li·cens·es
1. To give or yield permission to or for.
2. To grant a license to or for; authorize. See Synonyms at authorize.

license [ˈlaɪsəns]
vb (tr)
1. (Law) to grant or give a licence for (something, such as the sale of alcohol)
2. (Law) to give permission to or for

I think we will again have to agree to disagree, but that's fine too.

 

[wishin]

Now for the million dollar question-my neighborhood is right next to a school and most of my neighbors hunt and shoot does that make us all felons if we leave our driveways with a gun in the car/truck?

Here yes, if within 1000 feet, unless licensed to carry by Georgia. I don't think we have any LEO's that would enforce that law under the circumstances you specify. But...............

 

[Airman193SOS]

DO NOT take legal advice from wikipedia. It's probably worse than the advice you'll get here esp when it comes to firearms. I'd check your state/federal laws first.

I'd say NavyLT's post sums it up very succinctly for you

I'd like to put a caveat into that blanket statement you just made:

DO NOT take legal advice from Wikipedia--start there and carefully examine the actual legal decisions that the Wikipedia article draws from so that you can get the actual decision rather than an interpretation of the decision.

There is nothing inherently wrong with using Wikipedia as a starting point, but remember that it is exactly that, a starting point.

 

[Max C.]

Care of a legal dictionary:

License: A special permission to do something on, or with, somebody else’s property which, were it not for the license, could be legally prevented or give rise to legal action in tort or trespass.

If anyone here has access to Nexis-Lexus they can always search for federal cases citing the law. I'd argue that by the legal definition of license, you become licensed by the state that has the reciprocal agreement with the issuing state. If not, I have a feeling the reciprocal agreement would be pretty much useless. This should be similar to how states handle out of state driver's licenses.

 

[swinokur]

Max-that's my interpretation as well. Reciprocity is a license. If this were not the case, how could we drive interstate? When one state recognizes another state's permit, you are given a license to drive in that state. I believe the same applies to CCW permits. I have no actual cite or case law to substantiate this however and IANAL.

I guess we all should do whatever a previous poster has stated and that is interpret the law for yourself and be guided by that in your travels. I don't know if there is any case law involving these exact set of circumstances, ie. a CCW permit holder from another state being prosecuted in a reciprocal state if he meets the law enforcement background check in his state of license for violation of the GFSZA.

I am going to look on the BATFE web site and see what I can dig up on this.

 

[Top_Gunn]

OK, one last time:

I read the statute again carefully and no where does it say that law enforcement in the state where the school is located have to check you out. the wording is after law enforcement "verified that the individual is qualified to receive the license." I have permits from VA,UT, NV and FL and every single jurisdiction did a background check on me. As I read it, law enforcement DID verify my qualification to receive the permit and if the state where the school zone is located has reciprocity, I am "licensed" and legally allowed to carry. . No mention is made anywhere of which law enforcement entity has to verify my qualifications, nor where the license is issued originally. I still think the operative word is LICENSE.

A requirement for the exemption is thaat:

the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

What is "the" state or political subdivision whose law enforcement authorities must verify that you're qualified before issuing you a license? This part of the section doesn't say. So the reference to "the" state, etc. must be to the one that was mentioned earlier in the same sentence. That one is " the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State." So, to qualify for the exemption, even if we accept the argument that permission under reciprocity is a "license," the law enforcement authorities of the state in which the school is located must have verified that you qualify. When you carry in Michigan with an Indiana permit, this hasn't happened.

Of course, as you say, you are free to read the statute differently if you want to. But your reading isn't what counts; it's the reading of a federal judge that matters. It's not a chance I'd be willing to take.

 

[swinokur]

T.G.

When you say "it must mean" again that is YOUR reading of the statute. I still read it differently. As you point out so succinctly, it's not our interpretation of the statute. it will be the Federal judge who does. IMO I have met the legal intention of the statute. I do agree wholeheartedly that none of us want to be a test case, however.

 

[Top_Gunn]

When you say "it must mean" again that is YOUR reading of the statute. I still read it differently. As you point out so succinctly, it's not our interpretation of the statute. it will be the Federal judge who does. IMO I have met the legal intention of the statute. I do agree wholeheartedly that none of us want to be a test case, however.

The only state that is identified in the statute is the one in which the school zone is located. So when the same statute, later in the same sentence, refers to "the state," the only sensible way to read that language is to say that it refers to the same state they've been talking about earlier in the sentence. If Congress had meant to say "any state" or "some other state," they would have done it that way. You are, of course, free to read it differently, just as you are free to read "Zebra" as meaning "Alaska," if you want to. The question is, why would you want to?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Nobody is going to change any minds here. We should just let them do whatever they want. At least we are all carrying here! Enough information, imho, has been presented for someone to make up their own mind, or to further consult an attorney if they have questions and feel the need to.

 

[sheepdog]

...don't know what may be happening in Texas w/respect to the Federal law on this subject...but they came and yanked that blasted sign outa my front yard, and I'm glad I don't have to mow around it anymore!!!

 

[NavyLCDR]

What sign?!? Was there a no firearms school zone sign on YOUR property?