Canada Gun Ban Pt 2 - It gets worse....

[dak0ta]

Basically in the new law passed on May 1, any firearm with a bore diameter >20mm is prohibited. The Liberal govt had done this to ban 50BMG rifles, but indirectly also ended up banning 12 and 10 gauge shotguns in the process. The govt said they just wanted to ban 'military assault weapons', whatever that means, and hunters would not be affected. Well, based on how the law is written, it actually technically includes 12 and 10 bore shotguns. This just shows how hastily written without any real expert firearm knowledge this piece of sh.. I mean legislation was churned out to suit an agenda.

Source: https://www.csaaa.org/blair-bans-12-gauge-10-gauge-shotguns-and-hunting-rifles/

Blair bans 12-gauge, 10-gauge shotguns and hunting rifles!


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

May 05, 2020

The Canadian Sporting Arms and Ammunition Association (CSAAA) and the Canadian Shooting Sports Association (CSSA) demand the immediate withdrawal of the flawed Order in Council.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Minister Bill Blair looked Canadian gun owners in the eye last Friday and said they would not take guns suitable for hunting away from us.

Minister Blair is either too inept to comprehend the scope of his regulations…or he lied to the Government and Canadians.

In the legal opinion of our firearms legal team – headed by Edward Burlew L.L.B., one of the foremost experts in Canadian firearms law – Blair banned almost every modern 12-gauge and 10-gauge shotgun in Canada with removable chokes because they exceed the maximum bore diameter of 20 mm as defined in SOR/2020-96.

It is estimated there 1.5 – 2 million of these common hunting firearms in Canada.

As well, many large bore hunting rifles – some more than 100 years old and valued at more than $100,000 have become prohibited. None of these firearms are semi-automatic or “military style.” They encompass common bolt-action rifles such as the .460 Weatherby, break-open single and double rifles. These firearms are captured because the powerful cartridges they shoot – designed to humanely dispatch the largest game animals. PURE hunting rifles.

Canada’s firearms industry body, the CSAAA, is advising retailers to stop sales of “large hunting calibre, non semi-automatic rifles such as the Weatherby Mark V .460 as these rifles exceed the 10,000 Joules energy restriction.


Remington – 870 Express 12 Gauge Shotgun



Weatherby Mark V .460 hunting rifle

Additionally, CSAAA advises retailers to cease sales of many 12-gauge or larger shotguns with removable chokes.”

Despite open hunting seasons across much of Canada, lawful firearms owners should refrain from using 12-gauge or larger shotguns with removable chokes or large calibre rifles capable or exceeding the government’s energy ceiling.

Those firearms are PROHIBITED and may not be used or transports for any reason.

Intentional likes or incompetent mistakes? You decide.

The Canadian Sporting Arms and Ammunition Association (CSAAA) and the Canadian shooting Sports Association (CSSA) demand the immediate withdrawal of the Governments’s flawed Order in Council and the immediate removal of Minister Blair from the Public Safety file.

READ THE LEGAL OPINION HERE

For more information call:

Alison de Groot, CSAAA 1-705-875-2302 [email protected]

Tony Bernardo, CSSA 1-905-571-2150 [email protected]

 

[captain awesome]

My heart goes out to the citizens of Canada. How terrible.

 

[Meeks36]

It's just a matter of time before it happens here in the USA. Might be 5 years or 100. But it will happen here.

 

[reddog81]

Well, technically 12 gauge shotguns have been used by the military. However just about every caliber of bullet has been used by some military at one point in time. Of course in their mind that’s a justification to ban everything under the sun.

 

[DoubleMag]

...and hunters all across our fruited plain should be calling their CA outfitters, stating why they will not be back up North anytime soon

JOMO

 

[748]

I'm going to have to call BS on that.
I don't think for a second they "accidentally included shot guns".
We know the gun grabbers ultimate goal is total private firearms bans and confiscation.

Hey and isn't 20mm like 0.8 inches?
Isn't 12 gauge some where around 0.73"?
And 20 gauge some where around 0.62"?

10,000j energy restriction? *** how many crimes are weapons that make in excess of 10kj used?

 

[buck460XVR]

The linked article only says, in "their opinion" the new law bans sporting firearms of .45 caliber and larger which includes shotguns with a bore of over .45". I doubt very much if Canadian sportsmen/hunters are going to accept that nor do I think it was the intent of the new law passed by the Canadian government. Time will tell. The inclusion of the 10,000J and bore comes down to .50BMG type weapons, which the Canadian Government looks at as "military". Percentage of hunters per capita is as high if not higher than the U.S. The Canadian Libertarian party saw a big decline in power in the last recent election. I doubt if they are gong to tick off the majority of their constituents with such a fool hardy(as in the conspiracy type proposed here) measure.

 

[bluebanana]

12 gauge is 18.5 mm diameter and 10 gauge is 19.7 mm diameter. They knew what they were doing.

 

[jhb]

maybe the made a mistake maybe they didnt. they banned a gun forum website as well. not saying it as this isnt the place, can read the banned list if interested. my first thought was they googled everything tied to certain guns models and didnt know what they were doing but then again maybe they did?

that's a shame. there goes duck and bird hunting, skeet shooting, etc with a 12 gauge. sorry my Canadian brethren this happened to y'all. this is all wrong.

 

[DanMar757]

So am I missing something here? 50 BMG is listed as 12.7 x 99 mm NATO in Wikipedia. That is somewhat smaller than 20 mm and would not be banned by the law as stated above, right?

 

[milemaker13]

I too am confused by the conversation math here.. bore diameter larger than 20mm? Then the12 & 10 should be fine if they are indeed 18.5 & 19.7mm.
And .50 is also smaller than 20mm, but you mentioned an energy cap? Weird.
ETA- Oh, Canada

 

[Swampman]

My understanding is that the 20mm restriction could affect shotguns with removable internal choke tubes.

If the tube is removed, the section of the "bore" normally occupied by the tube exceeds 20mm.

 

[Armorer 101]

You guys are obviously trying to make sense out of something that makes no sense. The correct way to handle this is to demand retraction of the law or the government will be removed from office. No give and take, just retract or be removed.

 

[Swampman]

You guys are obviously trying to make sense out of something that makes no sense. The correct way to handle this is to demand retraction of the law or the government will be removed from office. No give and take, just retract or be removed.

YEAH!

Just like US citizens did when the Federal Assault Weapons Ban was enacted back in 1994!

 

[Elkins45]

My heart goes out to the citizens of Canada. How terrible.

Technically they aren’t citizens, are they? Aren’t they considered subjects of the Crown?

 

[Swampman]

I'm not an expert, but I think they can be both since the Canadian Citizenship Act of 1947.

My understanding is that prior to that act, they were subjects.

 

[lemaymiami]

I imagine that this site gets a lot of members from north of the border... If so, it would be helpful to learn exactly what folks in Canada are saying about this - and whether in fact this new law does ban larger bore shotguns.... Particularly the most common, the 12 ga....

Who knows, there might even be one or two enforcement or legal types from Canada that could respond and provide a clear view of this particular portion of the new law(s)....

 

[FFGColorado]

YEAH!

Just like US citizens did when the Federal Assault Weapons Ban was enacted back in 1994!

The ban, enacted in 1994, had a 10 year run..then it was gone. The 'citizens' elected members of congress and POTUS..and the ban was not re-newed. Sounds like it worked like it was supposed to..

The correct way to handle this is to demand retraction of the law or the government will be removed from office. No give and take, just retract or be removed.

 

[dak0ta]

The government left the text quite ambiguous to interpretation. The Canadian Border Service Agency recently confiscated an old Iver Johnson single shot 12 ga based on the law as written.

RCMP prohibits first 12-Gauge Shotgun with 20mm Bore Law - CBSA Memorandum backs Firearms Lawyers on Shotgun Ban

May 8, 2020



OSHAWA: On May 5, 2020, CSSA and CSAAA issued a joint news release showing Justin Trudeau and Bill Blair – either through gross ignorance or gross incompetence – banned 12-gauge and 10-gauge shotguns under the 20mm maximum bore diameter restriction in SOR/2020-96. i

Minister Blair’s denied this via social media, saying,
“Both 10 and 12 gauge shotguns are under the 20mm provision, and thus not subject to the prohibition. Our government is taking action to protect Canadians by banning assault-style weapons – not those used for hunting.” ii

“The truth matters,” Minister Blair said.

We agree 100%.

The truth matters.

This morning, the RCMP confirmed the first 12-gauge shotgun prohibited under the new Order-in-Council.

The deadly evil weapon? An old Iver Johnson single-shot, fixed choke 12-gauge shotgun with a 2 3/4" chamber. That's right, a standard old farm gun.

RCMP Technical Unit Supervisor, Tim Hobbs, confirmed this firearm would be classified as prohibited in a phone call with a prominent firearms dealer.

See this firearm being measured - see for yourself:



That’s why we asked for the legal opinion of one of Canada’s top firearm lawyers, Edward L Burlew LL.B. iii

Solomon Friedman LL.B., another respected lawyer well-versed in firearms law, agrees with Mr. Burlew’s opinion.

“Your standard 12-gauge shotgun, most people think it has a bore of 18.5 millimeters,” he told CBC Radio, “but modern shotguns are actually over-bored – they’re larger than 18.5 millimeters to allow you to screw in attachments called chokes. It’s very common. Most modern shotguns are made that way and that they are almost all larger than 20 millimeters.” iv

If Minister Blair doesn’t want to listen to the opinion of two experts in Canadian firearms law, perhaps he will agree with the experts in one of the agencies he oversees.

The Canadian Border Services Agency (CBSA) Memorandum D19-13-2, issued May 29, 2019, defines BORE as:

the inside of the barrel of a firearm, from the throat to the muzzle, through which the projectile travels. v

By the CBSA’s definition, it may be all 12-gauge and 10-gauge shotguns – not just those with removable chokes – are now Prohibited firearms because they do not consider the forcing cone, the “throat” of the barrel, which exceeds the 20 mm maximum bore diameter specified in SOR/2020-96.

Will Minister Blair is support the CBSA opinion that meshes with two of Canada’s top legal experts in firearms law?

Or will he toss them under the bus because he can’t admit he made a huge mistake?

We demand Minister Bill Blair immediately rescind SOR/2020-96 until such time as he can figure out what he’s doing.

It’s clear he hasn’t figured out what he’s doing yet, and all Canadian hunters and sport shooters may pay the price for his incompetence.

Fixing this particular (among many) problem requires the addition of two little words: “except shotguns.” That it is so easy to fix yet Blair refuses to make the change, tells us the wording was intentional. Minister Bill Blair promised to call us the next day to clarify the OiC. Two and a half days later... we're still waiting. More to come. - TB

Source: https://myemail.constantcontact.com...e-Law.html?soid=1124731702303&aid=0kYJWd-2OU8

The next day the RCMP said they will measure the bore just after the forcing cone which on most shotguns is less than 20mm.

Important notice: Update on 10 and 12 gauge shotgun classification under the new prohibition
On May 1st, 2020, the Government of Canada announced that it had made amendments to the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and Other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited, Restricted or Non-Restricted (SOR/98-462) [Classification Regulations] prescribing certain firearms as prohibited. One of the categories of the newly prohibited firearms include "Any firearm with a bore diameter of 20 mm or greater" (s. 95 of the Classification Regulations).

The Canadian Firearms Program (CFP) of the RCMP adheres to the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners' (AFTE) definition for bore diameter measurements. "The interior dimensions of the barrel forward of the chamber but before the choke." (Glossary of the Association of Firearm & Tool Mark Examiners by the AFTE Standardization Committee, 1st Ed. 1980). This is reflected in the RCMP's Firearms Reference Table (FRT) which clearly states that "...in shotguns, diameter of the barrel forward of the chamber but before the choke." The CFP also recognizes the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) standards regarding firearms and ammunition. The SAAMI chamber specifications for 10ga and 12ga shotguns do not include chokes therefore indicating that chokes are not part of the bore. Accordingly, it is the CFP's view that, in accordance with acceptable firearms industry standards for shotguns, the bore diameter measurement is considered to be at a point after the chamber, but before the choke.

Further, in making classification assessments of firearms which are reflected in the FRT, the CFP relies on recognized industry standard measurements. With respect to 10ga and 12ga shotguns, the CFP recognizes the SAAMI standard specifications which establish that the nominal (i.e. standard) bore diameter measurements for 10ga and 12ga shotguns are below the 20mm threshold (19.69mm for 10ga, 18.42mm for 12ga).

Source: https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firea...-new-prohibition-certain-firearms-and-devices

This doesn't give Canadians peace of mind as different LE agencies are interpreting the law differently so there is no uniform application of the law. Hence Canadian gun owners are SUEING the Liberal government for this Order in Council that was not debated during Parliament. The Liberals took advantage of a mass shooting and campaign process to strip the populace of AR-15s. They rushed the job and had somebody just compile any gun that is AR15 related hence AR15.com and Black Rifle Coffee Co. AR were also banned in the process. It just shows they don't know what they're doing.

The CCFR is our equivalent to the NRA but at 1% the capacity and size. I know lots of Canadians donate to the NRA, help us out American brothers. https://firearmrights.ca/en/we-are-going-to-court/

 

[Speedo66]

Hence Canadian gun owners are SUEING the Liberal government for this Order in Council that was not debated during Parliament. The Liberals took advantage of a mass shooting and campaign process to strip the populace of AR-15s. They rushed the job and had somebody just compile any gun that is AR15 related hence AR15.com and Black Rifle Coffee Co. AR were also banned in the process. It just shows they don't know what they're doing.

Sort of like NY's midnight "Safe Act" bill, no public hearings, not even legislative members knew what was in it. "You'll find out what's in it once you've signed it". Passage made cops criminals for possessing "large capacity mags", since initially there was no exemption for them.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

Sort of like NY's midnight "Safe Act" bill, no public hearings, not even legislative members knew what was in it. "You'll find out what's in it once you've signed it". Passage made cops criminals for possessing "large capacity mags", since initially there was no exemption for them.

As well they should've been criminals. If *we*, the common civilian citizen can not possess something; neither should the jackbooted thugs most LEO's have turned into have such.

 

[Speedo66]

As well they should've been criminals. If *we*, the common civilian citizen can not possess something; neither should the jackbooted thugs most LEO's have turned into have such.

Into hyperbole much, are you? Even LaPierre apologized for the "jackbooted thugs" comment.

 

[kudu]

Since this is the Shotgun Section and we are getting into Activism and Legal I am going to close this thread.