Can't get gun to group...Scope or Gun?

[archerben]

I've recently purchased a Savage .223 package (Model 10GXP3) that I have been trying to work up a varmint load for. I've tried multiple bullets, multiple powders, multiple variations of COL, and have not been able to get anything better than a 1.25" group at 100 yards (off of a bench). Most of my groups are averaging 2" - 2.5". I've decided that my next step is to put a different scope and rings on the gun to see if that is where the problem lies. Has anybody else experienced scope problems with one of Savages packages? Or does the problem more likely lie with the gun itself?

 

[Zullo74]

Maybe someone could be of more help to you if you told us how many rounds are through the barrel since new? What bullet weights are you trying? What powders? What velocities? My swag would be that the barrel is not broken in yet. Takes about 300 rounds with some factory (and some after market) barrels. Some are great from the get-go and some need a long break-in period. Don't give up hope!

 

[AndyC]

Could also be the shooter (no offence).

Have someone (whom you know is a good shooter) perhaps try a few rounds through it, just to eliminate you as a variable, before you go to the expense of swapping out gear perhaps unnecessarily.

 

[hoghunting]

Savages are normally very accurate. The scope on the package deal is probably an inexpensive Simmons and the bases and rings are not the best either. I would start with replacment of the bases and rings and a new scope if you want better accuracy.

 

[EricTheBarbarian]

try alot more practice. youll be surprised how much practice tightens up shot groups.

 

[Sunray]

"...averaging 2" - 2.5"..." Look at the bedding and the trigger before you do anything else. The scope doesn't have anything to do with the accuracy of the rifle. It just lets you see the target better.

 

[hagar]

How clean is your barrel, your action screws tight, and is your crown in good shape? Excessive copper fouling will increase your group size quite a bit. Sweets 7.62 is your friend. Dry fire the rifle and watch the crosshairs in your scope, if they jump around when you pull the trigger, it is time for a new scope. If it is a cheap scope, try a better one.

 

[taliv]

scopes can be the problem if you got a cheap one and the reticle is loose.

 

[Essex County]

First, I'd really clean the barrel and look at the bedding. Then upgrade and lap a set of better mounts. Try a proven scope. It is quite unuasual for a Savage in your caliber to not shoot a lot better. Good Luck! Essex

 

[loki.fish]

Unless you got a lemon gun, I'd say you're scope is the problem. I'm not a great shooter and my Savage Mark II will do less than 1.5" at 100 yards and it's just a .22lr. I've had issues with bad groupings on my AR10....it ended up being the Simmons scope that came with it when I bought it used. I've also heard of other people having issues with Simmons scopes. So if your scope is Simmons, I'd say there's the issue.

 

[cmidkiff]

My Savage 93V (.17hmr) 'package deal' came with a Simmons 3-9x40 already mounted. The scope wouldn't hold a zero, and the groups stunk.

I tossed the scope, pulled the rings, made sure that everything was assembled properly, and mounted a Leopold Rifleman 3-9x40. It shoots around .75MOA at 100 now.

My Model 12BV in .204 ruger, with a Weaver KT15 will shoot under .5moa from a good rest at 100.

I would suspect the scope first... make sure the mounts are tight, make sure the action screws are tight, make sure the barrel isn't touching the stock anywhere... if you're using the cheap plastic stock that Savage uses, make sure that it's not flexing enough to impact the barrel in your bench rig. (and replace the stock!)

 

[Hokkmike]

To eliminate "shooter" as a possible cause let somebody else try five or put the rifle in a shooting vise.

 

[archerben]

Wow, I didn't expect so many responses in the time I went to lunch. Thanks for all the replies thus far. No offense taken to the "could be the shooter" remark. However, I know that I am physically shooting better than the gun is grouping. I'm shooting off of a bench with a Steady Point gun rest. With the same bench setup, I shot multiple sub 1" groups with my .25-06 last weekend. Here's some more information:

- Stock is wood, not plastic.
- Barrel is 100% free floated.
- The gun has the accu-trigger.
- I followed the 50 shot break-in process outlined on Savage's website.
- The gun has had approximately 125 - 150 rounds through it.
- Bullets tried: Hornady V-Max 55 gr., Nosler Ballistic Tip 55 gr. Sierra 63 gr.
- Powders tried: Varget and IMR 4895 in 1/2 grain increments from starting load to 1/2 grain under max load.
- I clean with both powder solvent and copper solvent, so the barrel should be free of copper buildup.
- I've tried shooting groups with both a clean barrel and a fouled barrel.

Somebody mentioned looking at the bedding. What do I look for?

 

[Art Eatman]

Suggestion: Make a one-inch-wide strip of kitchen wax paper. Fold it back and forth until it takes about a five-pound pull to separate barrel and forearm enough to insert this shim. See if that helps; it usually does.

In the interim, if you don't have any wax paper, use strips from a business card. The drawback is that they can hold moisture, and they'll compress with time. But, for experimenting, they'll work.

I like the wax paper because a few shots melt the wax just enough that it stays in place. Won't hold moisture. Won't compress further.

IMO, people worry too much about rings and bases. I've used all manner of Weavers and el cheapo Weaver clones, and never had a problem that had to do with the quality of the bases or rings. Whatever rare problems I've had wuz me, not the stuff. I do the occasional stupid, just like everyone else.

My guess is that if the scope is "bad", the groups would be much larger than 2.5".

And there's always the chance you're living in Lemonville.

Art

 

[rangerruck]

do two more things first. dont tighten the action screws with more than 10 lbs of torque. those cheapy stocks by them can really flex your bbl., just in front of your receiver. make sure it is freefloated, out at the range , check it cold, then after fireing about 10 fast rounds, check it again. see if you suddenly have some sticking points. Last, if all the above is okay or fixed, put a little pressure pad between the bbl and the stock, out at the tip of the stock. cuts your bbl harmonics, it may , or may not, really shrink down your groups, cut my marlin groups down to .25 or less at 50 yds.
I used those little hard rubber pads you buy for the inside of your kitchen cabinet drawers, and pantry drawers, so they dont' slam closed when you shut them, kinda like an AK bolt buffer!!!

 

[archerben]

So there's been a couple of recommendations to put a little pressure under the front end of the barrel. I will definitely keep that in mind. That brings up another idea. Do any of you guys have experience with the Sims LimbSaver Barrel De-Resonator? If so, how well do they work?