Cap fires... but no powder ignition

[Shoot The Moon]

Finally made it to the range today with my Euroarms Remmie - experimenting with 30gn/vol of 777 and also (yeah, I know - two variables is bad practice) changing to Remington caps instead of RWS.

Anyway, 5th shot the cap goes off, but the main charge fails to fire. I put another cap on and it fired straight away.

This then happened again on the next cylinderful. That's the first time in years that I have had a cap & ball misfire, so I am wondering what's happened. I guess it could just be two bad caps, but they both fired well - I could hear them clearly despite wearing ear defenders.

What I'm wondering is if the amount of compression on the 777 has caused this to happen? I read that somewhere here once. I didn't use a load of pressure on the lever, but I guess it was packed fairly tight. Any ideas? I am seriously considering going back to Pyrodex as it seems less fussy. (it's also £10 a pound cheaper here!)

Next trip to the range I will go back to the RWS1075s and that should prove it one way or the other, however it may be a week or two.

 

[Curator]

Did you clear the flash channels before loading? The most common failure to fire cause is clogged (oil or crud) flash channels. Most of us store our black powder guns well oiled. That oil ends up in the small channel of the nipples and is held there by capillary action. When you load without first popping a couple of caps on an empty chamber, the firrst cap blows this oil into the charge which fails to light. Sometimes, if there is enough oil (like in a "patent breech" percussion rifle) this oil will completely dampen the charge necessitating pulling the bullet. Always clear the flash channel before the first loading. As an extra assurance, I aim my gun at some loose leaves or dirt and visually ascertain air is coming out as each cap goes off. That way I know the channel is clear and ready to load.

 

[damoc]

yep oil or crud in the nipple holes either that or enough oil to have damaged
the powder.

 

[Shoot The Moon]

Thankyou for your suggestions, appreciate what you're saying - but I'm 100% that the flash channels were clear before 1st loading. I am less certain about the 2nd misfire, it's possible something blocked the hole that time, but there was definitely no oil there by then.

Whilst I agree that blockage/oil is the most common cause, I have fired many thousands of rounds from my cap and ball revolvers over the years (including a good few from this one) and I can count the number of misfires of this type on one hand. Like everyone, I am not immune to making mistakes, but in this case I do think it's something else. I definitely read somewhere on THR that 777 can be a pain to set off when it's compressed too tight.

 

[Fingers McGee]

I definitely read somewhere on THR that 777 can be a pain to set off when it's compressed too tight.

While I have no first hand knowledge; I've heard that this is a possibility. Hodgdon recommends the use of a lubed wad between the powder and ball. Probably to keep from over compressing the load?

Did you know that your 30 grain load exceeds the Hodgdon recommended load for a 44 cal 58 Remmie?

 

[Foto Joe]

Although I don't use it, it's my understanding that 777 DOES NOT get compressed. Why I don't know, but you may have already figured that out.

It sounds like you've been doing this for a while but one of my tricks is that after every cylinder, I simply run a nipple pick down each nipple before loading. It serves two purposes, first is the obvious, it knocks out any crud that may have blocked the hole. Second it allows the gun just another half minute to cool before I dump powder in the chambers. Even if I'm using an adjustable measure and not pouring out of the flask, having 30gr of anything go off with my fingers that close will ruin my day.

 

[ClemBert]

Do NOT compress 777. It will only lead to inaccuracy problems. The ball should just "push down slightly" on the powder. Personally, I think you have oil contamination at the bottom of the chambers coupled with weak primers. Blowing the nipples out by firing caps only first and using a magnum primer should do it. 777 is a very good powder. It's a proven powder so there's no need to poo-poo it.

 

[Shoot The Moon]

Did you know that your 30 grain load exceeds the Hodgdon recommended load for a 44 cal 58 Remmie?

Hi Fingers.. thankyou - I know it's a bit of a hot load, was just experimenting....

I struggle for consistency and today's misfire has made me doubt it again. I think I might go back to Pyrodex when this can's gone.

 

[mykeal]

Hodgdon publishes a page on their web site providing loading instructions for Pyrodex and 777 in both loose and pellet form. It's well worth the time to read carefully. 777 yields inconsistent results when compressed, everything from FTF's to widely varying pressures (thus velocities) to normal performance. Seat the projectile firmly with enough force to ensure it is in fact seated, but take care not to compress the powder any more than absolutely necessary.

 

[J-Bar]

I like Pyrodex, use lots of it, but it is harder to ignite than real black powder. I also think your problem was likely due to failure to clear the nipple adequately. I will fire two caps on each nipple before charging the chambers prior to a big match, make sure they are dry. Try real black powder, its easier to ignite.

 

[Hellgate]

I almost never fire caps to clear the channels (too cheap to waste expensive caps!). I take a can of compressed air with the long red nozzle and blow out the flash holes before I leave for the range and visually inspect that they are clear. Then after charging and seating the ball in the chambers I run a nipple pick about 1/4" into the powder before capping. I have rarely had a misfire this way but I also have never shot 777 in my C&Bs. I have used Pyro-P and found that I needed to firmly compress the Pyro and not use a wad or else I got delayed ignition. i.e. paBOOM instead of just plain BOOM each shot.

 

[Shultzhaus]

I also carry a can of that compressed air. Good for nipples, touch holes and inline breaches. I do store my revolvers on a peg board in the back of my gun locker. They hang with barrel down, and any oil should migrate away from the nipples. Three or four days before I take a rifle to the range, I stand it muzzle down on a towel in the gun locker. Again, oil will migrate out of the breach area. Still a good idea to blow things out with the air can.

 

[higene]

Clearing the channel

Is there a comparable process for clearing the channel on a flintlock? I have heard of putting a toothpick or a feather in the flash hole when loading the Black Powder charge. Blowing air through the flash hole possibly?? Where do you get compressed air in a can besides VanCamps??

 

[Pancho]

Any computer store/electronics store

 

[Fingers McGee]

Where do you get compressed air in a can besides VanCamps??

Walmart, K-Mart, Target, Menard's, Radio Shack, etc.

FM

 

[BHP FAN]

Try cleaning your cylinder's chambers with alcohol and a Q-tip before you go to the range. it evaporates quickly, and will clear your chambers of any residual oil without wasting caps.I've had no misfires...not one, useing mild compression and Triple Seven, in a variety of handguns, from a Stainless .44 Remmie to a pair of tiny .22 NAA Super Companions.

 

[Pancho]

another quick drying aerosol is ether starting fluid.

 

[1858remington]

I've had great results in my 44 remmies with the 30gr pyrodex pellets. They are very consistant and make loading a breeze.

 

[Jim K]

On the original problem, did the misfires happen on the same chamber? If you don't know, use chalk to mark the chambers the next time. One possibility is a short nipple.

Jim