This is a question that has been asked a time or two in the past but I'm interested the the fresh THR opinion. For a home defense handgun (not CCW), would you choose capacity over caliber or vise versa? Just to use Glock as an example, would you take a Glock 17 (9mm) with 17 round capacity or a Glock 21 (45ACP) with a 13 round capacity? How good a compromise would 40 S&W be? Just been thinking and am curious.
Capacity VS Caliber - Home Defense
- Thread starter marb4
- Start date
- Status
Hokkmike
Member
I have ready in several place where the average gunfight is 2 - 3 rounds. Then it is over. That gives momentum to the caliber over capacity crowd.
However there is more to be consider; the operating system of the gun, ergonomics, operating system, effective recoil, etc.
At the top of the stairs in my defensive position give me a shotgun. Stealthily creeping about my house give me a larg(er) caliber pistol or revolver, and for CC (I know - not your question) give me what carries the best and is totally reliable. (very subjective - I know)
However there is more to be consider; the operating system of the gun, ergonomics, operating system, effective recoil, etc.
At the top of the stairs in my defensive position give me a shotgun. Stealthily creeping about my house give me a larg(er) caliber pistol or revolver, and for CC (I know - not your question) give me what carries the best and is totally reliable. (very subjective - I know)
PJSprog
Member
My HD gun has always been and will continue to be my 6" 686.
If you can't place a good shot, though, all the rounds in the world won't matter regardless of caliber.
If you can't place a good shot, though, all the rounds in the world won't matter regardless of caliber.
Schwing
Member
It is not an argument that can ever be decisively won. It has persisted for longer than I have been alive.
For me I certainly have my own opinions. I just make for dang sure I am completely comfortable with any of my defense guns and don't even worry about anything past that.
For me I certainly have my own opinions. I just make for dang sure I am completely comfortable with any of my defense guns and don't even worry about anything past that.
In 100+ years of debate I've yet to see any proof that larger caliber handguns are any more effective assuming comparable bullets are chosen. The quality of the bullet is what matters. In that debate a 9mm and 45 have proven to be about as close to a tie as possible. While no more than 6-10 shots would likely ever be needed, I see no real downside to having more, just in case. I see no advantage to a larger caliber gun regardless of mag capacity.
If you only consider terminal performance the 40 is not a compromise. It beats both 9mm and 45 by a tiny bit. Many claim not enough to offset the added recoil it generates over the other two. That would be a personal thing. The only reason I no longer own a 40 is because I do own a 10mm. I can't justify both in my mind.
FWIW A G-21 is closest to my bed most nights, but I'd have equal confidence in any of the 9mm pistols or 357 revolvers in the house. I just tend to carry the smaller guns and the G-21 has sort of fallen into the HD role because it is the bigger gun. Not because I have any more confidence in its ability.
If you only consider terminal performance the 40 is not a compromise. It beats both 9mm and 45 by a tiny bit. Many claim not enough to offset the added recoil it generates over the other two. That would be a personal thing. The only reason I no longer own a 40 is because I do own a 10mm. I can't justify both in my mind.
FWIW A G-21 is closest to my bed most nights, but I'd have equal confidence in any of the 9mm pistols or 357 revolvers in the house. I just tend to carry the smaller guns and the G-21 has sort of fallen into the HD role because it is the bigger gun. Not because I have any more confidence in its ability.
M2 Carbine
member
Since it's a HD gun size is no problem.
Personally I go for a "hot' caliber and large magazine.
Like this Taurus 101 with a 357 SIG barrel.
Personally I go for a "hot' caliber and large magazine.
Like this Taurus 101 with a 357 SIG barrel.
I have a G17 and G21 and a .40 as well, but really I don't think it matters too much. While I do prefer the bigger bullets of the .40 and .45, I can't argue much against 18rds of low recoiling 9mm in my G17.
One thing too that I've thought about is that if you are awakened in the middle of the night, you might not exactly be on your A game and might be partially groggy. So something that recoils less might be the best bet, but then again your adrenaline might be pumping so it might not matter. The G17 and G21 both have very low recoil in general, both are very easy to shoot. They're all going to be loud indoors, but some are louder than others.
The .40, while it's probably my favorite all around cartridge, can buck a bit with medium weight bullets, but with typical 180gr loads it's not hard to control at all and still delivers impressive performance.
One thing too that I've thought about is that if you are awakened in the middle of the night, you might not exactly be on your A game and might be partially groggy. So something that recoils less might be the best bet, but then again your adrenaline might be pumping so it might not matter. The G17 and G21 both have very low recoil in general, both are very easy to shoot. They're all going to be loud indoors, but some are louder than others.
The .40, while it's probably my favorite all around cartridge, can buck a bit with medium weight bullets, but with typical 180gr loads it's not hard to control at all and still delivers impressive performance.
Hometeached1
Member
I would go with whatever you shoot best, that being said I would tend to go with higher capacity, I know the average number of rounds fired is 3, with that being said, on average I'm not going to need to use my pistol.
Mike1234567
member
Good enough penetration... + physical damage... + more rounds... is best. My current go-to gun (right by my pillow) is a pistol with 18 rnds of 9mm Federal HST. But if I can get to it safely and on time... I'll reach for the 12ga with eight rnds of #4 buckshot.
Last edited:
Mainsail
Member
Neither one matters as much as choosing the gun that you shoot the best. Forget all the myths and hype and use what works best for you.
I can tell you from experience, that when a person is in a place he's not supposed to be he's edgy and the adrenaline is pumping. You could clap two wooden boards together and 75% of the time they'll take off running.
I can tell you from experience, that when a person is in a place he's not supposed to be he's edgy and the adrenaline is pumping. You could clap two wooden boards together and 75% of the time they'll take off running.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
The most important factor in handgun wounding effectiveness is shot placement. There are two components to shot placement - first you need to place the round on target and second, it needs to penetrate muscle, bone and flesh well enough to reach the vitals without deflection.
So basically, you want the cheapest ammo (because the more you practice, the better you'll be) that you can shoot well and that meets the penetration criteria. If all else is equa after these criterial, then I'd start going for higher capacity.
So basically, you want the cheapest ammo (because the more you practice, the better you'll be) that you can shoot well and that meets the penetration criteria. If all else is equa after these criterial, then I'd start going for higher capacity.
Learn your opposition's tactics
Government stats (can't remember if it's the FBI or Justice Department) show:
1. The average home invasion these days involves 3 criminals.
2. Historical averages have shown it takes 2.5 shots to stop the criminal (might as well round up to 3 since you can't fire 1/2 a round).
3. Toss in a few misses (fortunately, civilians have a much higher hit rate than LE).
How many rounds are you talking now (for a HD gun)?
I usually balance caliber vs. round count when making my choices, but with the advances in SD ammo over the years, I've tended to move down in caliber and up in round count.
My current bed gun is a SIG SP2022 (16 rds. Federal HST).
I like this little magazine capacity PSA someone posted a few days ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F1nPSNnaBo
Government stats (can't remember if it's the FBI or Justice Department) show:
1. The average home invasion these days involves 3 criminals.
2. Historical averages have shown it takes 2.5 shots to stop the criminal (might as well round up to 3 since you can't fire 1/2 a round).
3. Toss in a few misses (fortunately, civilians have a much higher hit rate than LE).
How many rounds are you talking now (for a HD gun)?
I usually balance caliber vs. round count when making my choices, but with the advances in SD ammo over the years, I've tended to move down in caliber and up in round count.
My current bed gun is a SIG SP2022 (16 rds. Federal HST).
I like this little magazine capacity PSA someone posted a few days ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F1nPSNnaBo
The gun meeting a certain minimum round is important.
Once that is met, then I'd go with 40S&W because it gives me most power out of a gun that still fits me, and I can still control it.
Actually most 40S&W combat loads are more powerful than standard pressure 45ACP.
M&P40 gives 15+1 rounds, so I do not feel that it is a big difference compared to 17+1 rounds.
Once that is met, then I'd go with 40S&W because it gives me most power out of a gun that still fits me, and I can still control it.
Actually most 40S&W combat loads are more powerful than standard pressure 45ACP.
M&P40 gives 15+1 rounds, so I do not feel that it is a big difference compared to 17+1 rounds.
Average "gun fight" or average "shooting" ? There is a big difference.
Nearly every gun fight footage I saw involved lot more than 2~3.
The power difference between 9mm~45ACP is not huge. But, I choose to go with stonger caliber since I want to get most of what I can from those ammo that are described as "marginal."
However, the capacity difference is not so big between 40S&W and 9mm, with 45ACP also easily reaching over 10 rounds capacity these days.
Tomac
Member
All handguns are relatively poor "stoppers" regardless of caliber or bullet used. Shot placement and sufficient penetration are paramount, all else is secondary.
With that being said, I prefer 9mm for greater capacity, controllability and faster followup shots (YMMV).
Tomac
With that being said, I prefer 9mm for greater capacity, controllability and faster followup shots (YMMV).
Tomac
Big_John1961
Member
I think in today's gun world you can have both in a home defense situation. Something like a Glock 21 or XDm 4.5, both in .45 ACP, are good examples. A proven defensive round with a capacity of 13+1. Or a M&P in .40 S&W or Glock 22, 15+1 of a pretty potent pistol caliber. Insert any number of other examples, to taste.
sargents1
Member
Some folks will say that placement trumps power and magazine capacity. To that I say Yes and Not Really. True, Placement trumps power every time, but capacity gives you more chances to get the placement right.
Personally, I want BOTH power and Capacity. I run a standard 15+1 in my G20. I figure that ought to do the trick. If I wanted more capacity there are inexpensive mag extensions that yield a +2 capacity, for a total of 17+1, which is equal to all but the most capacious 9mm's.
For a home defense gun (Read: Nightstand gun), you don't really have to choose between power and capacity. You can have your big bore gun and run an extended mag to get all the capacity you want.
For instance: you could get those G21 mags meant for the Kriss SuperV (aka Vector SMG) that hold 30rds and run one of those in your G21. Or you could run a SuperV pistol...
Or a Draco 7.62x39 with a 75rd drum mag, and a laser, flashlight, bayonet, red-dot sight and an under-mounted shotgun.
But that would just be silly.
For myself, I like something reasonably compact, respectable powerful, reliable and within budget.
Like this:
RetiredUSNChief
Member
What I choose is based on what I actually have and how proficient I am with it.
I am comfortable with any of my current handguns for home defense, regardless of caliber or capacity. I am reasonably proficient in both shooting and reloading that any of them would be suitable.
So my choice would be based on whatever is most readily available...AFTER taking all the other concurrent actions requried for home defense (get family moved someplace safer to hole up, calling 911, and grabbing whatever weapon of opportunity is available).
I would prefer NOT to ever have to actually shoot any of my guns inside the house without hearing protection, most especially my Automag II. But I WILL do it if I have to.
I am comfortable with any of my current handguns for home defense, regardless of caliber or capacity. I am reasonably proficient in both shooting and reloading that any of them would be suitable.
So my choice would be based on whatever is most readily available...AFTER taking all the other concurrent actions requried for home defense (get family moved someplace safer to hole up, calling 911, and grabbing whatever weapon of opportunity is available).
I would prefer NOT to ever have to actually shoot any of my guns inside the house without hearing protection, most especially my Automag II. But I WILL do it if I have to.
I guess in an indirect way I choose capacity. More so I choose what it easiest to shoot accurately and quickly, 9mm. The modern school of thought seems to advocate multiple, accurate hits to the vital region, and 9mm is probably the best caliber for me in that situation.
That said, I probably would pick up a rifle which is even easier to make hits with while offering power AND capacity.
That said, I probably would pick up a rifle which is even easier to make hits with while offering power AND capacity.
In the non-ballistics gel related stats I've seen (ie shots to a person rather than a block of goo) there is negligible difference between the better SD ammo made today in 9mm, 40, or 45. I can control a 9mm better out of the same sized pistol than either 45 or 40. I'll take capacity and ease of control over caliber with today's ammo.
The real debate to me is 45 vs 40. Here, I find I'm quicker with the 45 than 40 so do I trade capacity for caliber and control? That's the hard one. Realistically, I choose neither and would pick the 9mm.
That said, I lock all firearms up in a safe in the basement. I have issues with sleep walking and have done some crazy things in my sleep. I used to keep a nightstand pistol in one of the key pad lock boxes. One night I woke up with it in hand loaded. Ever since that night I leave the firearms locked on a different floor. My plan is to go out the first floor window (or front door if they are coming in that window) and since its just me to get out, I'm willing to give up all my other possessions to get out that window. Not worth the risk I present to my self to deal with a firearm for something that goes bump in the night.
For me, a night stick and a very high powered strobe flash light are my night stand weapons in the case someone is in real close. With minimal training the flashlight is very effective. 900 lumens in an inconsistent strobe from 10 feet is incapacitating.
The real debate to me is 45 vs 40. Here, I find I'm quicker with the 45 than 40 so do I trade capacity for caliber and control? That's the hard one. Realistically, I choose neither and would pick the 9mm.
That said, I lock all firearms up in a safe in the basement. I have issues with sleep walking and have done some crazy things in my sleep. I used to keep a nightstand pistol in one of the key pad lock boxes. One night I woke up with it in hand loaded. Ever since that night I leave the firearms locked on a different floor. My plan is to go out the first floor window (or front door if they are coming in that window) and since its just me to get out, I'm willing to give up all my other possessions to get out that window. Not worth the risk I present to my self to deal with a firearm for something that goes bump in the night.
For me, a night stick and a very high powered strobe flash light are my night stand weapons in the case someone is in real close. With minimal training the flashlight is very effective. 900 lumens in an inconsistent strobe from 10 feet is incapacitating.
- Status
