Carbine for Bug-Out kit

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Balrog

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
3,210
I am in the final stages of assembling my bug out kit. It is not a bug out bag. The intended purpose of the kit is to allow me and family to survive 48 hours. The kit would be put into a vehicle, so size is a consideration, but as long as I can pick it up to load it, I am not too worried about weight. In the event we had to walk, the kit would be broken down and put into everyone's backpacks, at least the bare essentials.

I would consider adding a light portable carbine to the kit, though not sure I want to.

There are really only 2 choices I am considering, either a Kel Tec Sub 2K that uses Glock 19 magazines, or a Ruger 10/22 takedown.

Advantage of the Kel Tec is it is very portable, quicker to get ready to shoot, and uses same mags and ammo as my Glock. Downside is it feels kind of cheap.

Advantage of the Ruger is that 10/22s are generally known to be reliable (I have 2 others), and 22 ammo is lightweight and won't take up much room. Downside is its just a 22, doesn't use same ammo as my Glock, and is slower to put together. I don't see hunting small game as an advantage, as I probably would not stop to hunt squirrels during the 48 hr bug out period.

Thoughts?
 
I have a Henry AR-7 survival rifle for that roll. Very compact, and even floats. I haven't shot it farther than 25 yards, and I wouldn't want to make a guess at its practical accuracy. I really need to shoot it some more, but so far it seems decent.
 
Balrog, I went through this thought process a few years ago. Ammo capacity, weight, rifle size, etc.

At that time, I chose to modify that .22 WMR rifle shown in your Scout Rifle thread. A lot of .22 WMR ammo can be carried for not much weight and size penalty over .22LR. Plus, a .22 WMR can have the same energy at 100 yards as .22 LR has at the muzzle.

After the modifications, the current size of that rifle is:
Overall length = 34.25"
Barrel length = 16.25"
Length of pull = 13.50"
Weight all up with scope, sling, 3 magazines, and 33 rounds on the rifle is 7 lbs.

If I had to do it again, I'd pick a lighter rifle to start with. Or, I'd just get a synthetic stocked rifle in 5.56x45 or 7.62x39.

Edit to add muzzle velocity figures from that rifle.

Zastava Mini Magnum Rifle with 16.25" barrel
Hornady VMax 30 grain = 2359, 2287, 2322 fps
Remington 40 grain PSP = 1996, 1880, 1885 fps
Winchester Super X 40 grain JHP= 1907, 1888, 1875 fps
 
Danoobie said:
A friend of mine had the Kel-Tec. He liked it.
But if you're only in it for 2 days, do you really
need a carbine?
Click to expand...


The 2 days gets me from point A to point B. I don't know what happens at point B. Probably would not need a gun at all, but if I do, would rather have a carbine than just a pistol. I haven't fully thought through adding a carbine though. Might be better off with a couple of extra mags for the Glock.
 
WrongHanded wrote:
I haven't shot it farther than 25 yards...
Click to expand...

The farthest I've ever shot my AR-7 has been about 50 yards. On anything you would want to engage with or harvest, 50 yards is about as far as I would care to go.

It's been my wife's gun since she used it to defend her apartment against an intruder. The way she holds it is kind of comical, but she gets hits out to about 30 feet with it and that's as far as she will never need to shoot it in a home defense situation.
 
Balrog said:
There are really only 2 choices I am considering, either a Kel Tec Sub 2K that uses Glock 19 magazines, or a Ruger 10/22 takedown.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Speaking of KelTec and my affection for .22 WMR, I'd like to try out the CMR-30. https://www.keltecweapons.com/rifles/cmr-30/

Caliber .22 WMR
Weight Unloaded 3.8lbs
Magazine Capacity 30
Overall Length 29.9”
Length Collapsed 22.5”
Barrel Length 16”
Twist Rate 1:14"
Trigger Pull 5lbs

Look at this kit for sale. A bit pricey, but too cool.
https://www.gunsamerica.com/967041241/Keltec-CMR-30-and-PMR-30.htm
 
Last edited:
A simple AR15 will weigh about 7lbs, with each loaded mag adding another pound. Split into the upper and lower, it backs down to a small package.

The biggest plus is that .223 Remington is very much more effective than 9mmP, much less .22LR. If you're going to lug a rifle sized package around, make it worth the effort.

BSW
 
In any bugout situation you will probably be around other people, them seeing your carbine may be an issue, and in most jurisdictions it isn't legal to conceal a rifle on your person like a ccw, so check local laws before you buy. I believe the sub2k is looked at differently since it isn't operational until unfolded and charged. Might affect your choice
 
briansmithwins said:
A simple AR15 will weigh about 7lbs, with each loaded mag adding another pound. Split into the upper and lower, it backs down to a small package.

The biggest plus is that .223 Remington is very much more effective than 9mmP, much less .22LR. If you're going to lug a rifle sized package around, make it worth the effort.

BSW
Click to expand...
Or better yet an AR pistol with a 10" barrel. Will definitely fit in a decent sized pack even assembled.
 
Another vote for a Henry AR-7 Survival rifle........ I've had one almost two years now and like the way it breaks down and stows. Never considered a bug out kit but if I were the AR-7 would fit into that plan. They shoot pretty good also but I don't shoot mine much.....( saving it for emergencies). 22 ammo isn't super heavy considering how many rounds to a pound.
 
Sub2K. Ammo is still light. But ammo weight shouldn't be a huge concern since chances are you won't need 1,000 rounds. Your window is 48 hours. Scrounging and hunting won't be an issue in your 48 hours. Basically, you're thinking defensive purposes.

But if you do need to use it, you want it to be as potent as possible. A .22, as awesome as they are, is not potent. 9mm is better than .22.

I'd still try an AR pistol, but a pistol cal carbine isn't terrible. It will give you a better chance of survival in a defensive fire fight than a 10/22. I'd rather be alive after a confrontation with a slightly heavier bullet than brag about how I have 500 extra rounds and be dead.
 
Last edited:
Kel tec sounds like a good choice, given the mag and ammo is the same as your glock.
Otherwise, I would've suggested something like a Sterling mkIV
 
FL-NC said:
Or better yet an AR pistol with a 10" barrel. Will definitely fit in a decent sized pack even assembled.
Click to expand...

10" barrel loses you about 325fps compared to a 16" but probably more importantly the 10" guns can be finicky to make work reliably.

BSW
 
Last edited:
Balrog said:
Advantage of the Ruger is that 10/22s are generally known to be reliable
Click to expand...

i've never seen a 22lr i would consider reliable. dang sure not a semi-auto 22. and especially not a ruger 10/22.

also, if you imagine all the possible problems a 22lr might solve
and if you consider all the problems having a carbine might create,
I'd say a 22lr is a net liability

carry a concealable handgun. in addition to that, consider a carbine in a rifle cartridge, like 223 or 300blk. a carbine in a pistol caliber is a waste of weight. you'd be better off with more food/water/meds
 
Ok.....Since my last post was deleted, what are you trying to survive for 48 hours? Where do you live (city, rural, suburbs)? What do you expect your targets to be? A gun disassembled in a bugout bag doesn't really do you much good if you suddenly need it. And if you're bugging out, you don't really know when you might need it. So better to have one slung than disassembled.
 
I think some good points have been made. The "kit" in concept is the bare essentials needed to "grab and go" in a hurry. I agree a disassembled rifle would likely be unhelpful. I think I will ditch the idea of a carbine for the kit. If there is more time, then I would grab an AR.
 
My first choice won't fit into my backpack: side folder Hun . AMD-65 "AK", designed for Hungarian tankers/paratroopers. LIght, very rugged.

No kidding here. So if a carbine ever Needs to be carried in my car, it will be the lightweight, rugged AMD.
If you could require a short rifle, at least the power of a 7.62x39 or 5.56 seems capable

...for feral dogs, Uncivil unrest.
 
Last edited:
Balrog said:
There are really only 2 choices I am considering, either a Kel Tec Sub 2K that uses Glock 19 magazines, or a Ruger 10/22 takedown
Click to expand...
My knee jerk reaction is to tell you to go with an AR pistol. There are options to make one really short.

But on further reflection, I think your best choice is the Kel Tec. It's not a carbine you're taking along to go plinking with or carry about in case you come across a rabbit or squirrel. It will be used only in the very worse case scenario and until then, it needs to be the smallest package that's quick and easy to deploy. That fits the description of the Kel Tec Sub 2000. You've answered your own question
 
Have you considered a kel tec su-16? There is a sbr version that weighs 4.5lbs and has an under folding stock. It would give you better range than the sub 2k. And it may be a good idea to have a rifle caliber in your bug out kit in case going from point a to point b doesnt go as planned.
 
48 hours describes pretty much every weekend for us. Generally to go to the farm or back it's just the handgun I always have unless I intend to shoot something other than the 30-30, .22, .410, 12ga I keep there.

Suitcase stays packed, just restocked when we get home. Never thought of calling it a bug out bag though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

weblance
  • Locked
My New 10/22 Takedown(Not What You Think)
2
Replies
26
Views
3K
chicharrones
chicharrones
N
  • Locked
lever action 357 for the bug out bag?
Replies
18
Views
4K
Badlander
B
N
  • Locked
Ultimate Bug out/Backpack Rifle
2
Replies
28
Views
2K
Carl N. Brown
Carl N. Brown
W
  • Locked
Kel Tec SU16 or kit built AR?
Replies
3
Views
606
stiletto raggio
S
R
  • Locked
Small Portable Carbine For HD
2
Replies
48
Views
4K
grimjaw
G
Back
Top