Carbon 15 vs. OA98 Carbine

[Fletchette]

With all the SHTF talk and checking bug-out bags, I started to look again at the lightweight and compact versions of the AR-15. The two that jump out as potential carbines for such a role are the Bushmaster Carbon-15 and the Olympic OA98 Carbine. I have fired neither, so I am looking for opinions.

Carbon 15: lightweight, can be stored without worry of rust or shiny scratches (good for bug-out bags). However, it does have negatives - no dustguard door nor a forward assist. Does that matter much in the real world? Bushmaster recently added a Carbon 15 with a true 16 inch barrel, so muzzle velocity is acceptable.

Olympic Arms OA98 Carbine. Not composite but still very light. It has the major feature of a side folding stock (great for bug-out bags)! However, this design necessitated a re-design of the recoil spring and the addition of a gas piston (advantage?). Since I have never fired one, does this design change help/hurt reliability? Shootability? Negatives- no iron sights and non-chromed barrel.

 

[rbernie]

I can not see how either of these two are 'better' than a M4-style carbine. I vote 'neither'.

 

[ckyllo]

I am pretty sure that the AO98 is direct gas and not a piston. the only diff is the AO98 buffer spring is a pull back instead of a push forward. at least the one that I looked at at a gunshow. and I try to stay away from uncommon parts in the event somthing breaks. the bushmaster carbon 15 I am not won on either. I shoot a 3 gun match that one of the guys have a carbon 15 it has not made it through a match without a malfunction. and I am not talking about a few drops of clp and go either. last match it would not cycle. im with rbernie and get a M4 or other carbine length ar.

 

[Fletchette]

I can not see how either of these two are 'better' than a M4-style carbine. I vote 'neither'.

I intentionally decided not to include a 'neither' button so as to prevent everyone from simply touting the virtues of their favorite gun. My intent was to obtain specific information on the two mdels listed.

As for the M-4; one can make several arguements against it in favor of the two models on the poll.

First, M-4s have a 14.5 inch barrel as opposed to a 16 inch barrel of the Carbon 15 and OA98 carbine. This results in noticeable muzzle velocity loss for the 5.56/.223 cartridge. To add insult to injury, the M-4 (at least civillian versions) have a permamently installed long flash hider in order to make up the require 16 inches to make it "legal". Thus, you pay the price of reduced muzzle velocity but do not gain a reduction in length.

The M-4 is also heavier than the Carbon 15.

The M-4 does not have a folding stock like the OA 98, so it is not as compact (especially for packing into a bug-out bag).

 

[JShirley]

The M4 4 or 6-position stock is well made and extremely user friendly. I find it to be about the best expandable stock around, and I would be willing to sacrifice a few inches of additional OAL to have it over almost any other nonfixed system.

John

 

[Fletchette]

The M4 4 or 6-position stock is well made and extremely user friendly.

The Carbon 15 has the same stock.

 

[lycanthrope]

I have an Oly OA93PT which has a detacheable stock versus the folder.

These are gas guns and not piston driven. The recoil spring rides above the handquard out front and you have a side charging handle.

Mine has been 100% from day one over 1500 rounds ago. Mine wears the FIRSH 4 rail handguard which is rather robust.

Having shot the Carbon 15 series, my Oly and various other AR's from kits and custom makers, I think you should save the extra cash and buy a lightweight M4 or CAR style 16" gun. You just aren't giving away that much for the extra cash that could go towards an ACOG or Aimpoint.

 

[Fletchette]

These are gas guns and not piston driven.

Really? They are still direct-impingement? If so, how do they pipe the gas to the bolt carrier - the recoil spring is in the way?

 

[lycanthrope]

The gas tube runs under the handguard as usual and the recoil spring tube sits directly above the handguard.

The recoil spring is small, but long. It's only about the diameter of the recoil spring of a 1911 style pistol.

 

[Kharn]

I'd rather go with the Bushmaster Superlight.

Kharn

 

[chopinbloc]

i concur. those rifles are fine for fun but not well enough proven to rely on, especially as your only long gun. the parts issue with the olympic model is significant, too. go with a proven design. rock river arms will allow you to get basically any configuration you want in a rifle. i ordered an upper with a 16" barrel and mid lenth hangdguards. you can choose between everything from the light, thin barrel reminiscent of the a1 all the way to a super heavy stainless varmint barrel. you can have it fluted you can get your rifle with rail handguards or without, flat-top with or without fixed rear sight, fixed carry handle, well, you get the point. you can have a rifle built which will exactly meet your criteria, so why compromise? model 1 will do the same for just a little bit less dough.

 

[arizcowboy]

I vote for the Olympic Arms. The Carbon 15 had problems originally when they were made by Professional Ordnance.

 

[Fletchette]

I admit that I was quite interested in the Carbon 15, but have reservations due to so many bad stories out there. Also, for a SHTF gun, it should be pretty darn reliable. Feeding problems associated with dirt seem to be the problem. This may be due to the Carbon 15 having no dust guard.

I was unaware that the OA 98 still used direct gas impingement - I learned something new.

Kharn, your suggestion is appreciated. After I started this poll I have started to pay more attention to the Bushmaster Superlight. However, Bushmaster's website does not list the weight. Does anyone here know?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I think by limiting your choice to those two rifles you are trading a noticeable amount of reliability for a few ounces in weight. I'd go with the Olympic lightweight rifle that uses a traditional AR setup. Less to go wrong and well worth the few ounces difference in weight.

 

[gau5]

I like the carbon 15s, but I have had many feeding issues despite 4 returns to the old Professsional Ord factory. From reviews, I dont think the Bushmaster models are much of an improvement. I now have a Colt pencil barrel, its the way to go.

 

[usncpg45]

BM Carbon 15 Model 4

First of all, let me point out that there are several versions / variations of the Carbon 15 rifle. The standard Carbon 15 does not have a forward assist or an ejection port cover.. However, the Carbon 15 Model 4, has both. And for all purposes IS a standard M4-type rifle, with the obvious exception of being made from plastic.

I can personally vouch for the accuracy and durability of this rifle. I have over 1500 rounds through mine, with only 2 malfunctions. Both failures to feed, due to me not seating the magazine completely. This was not the weapon's fault.

This weapon is as durable as they come. The carbon fiber will never rust or pit, and requires no oil....ever. The parts you would normally oil internally on a rifle of this type, are the same on the Carbon 15. You never need to wipe the receivers down externally, unless they get muddy and you don't like the looks of the mud! A standard field strip and cleaning is identical to that of a steel stamped / forged M4. The Carbon 15 Model 4 will accept standard AR parts, so don't worry about that.

Pick one up. The 5.5lb dry weight is enough to make you do a double take. 6.5lb with 30rd magazine. Mine is outfitted with a co-witnessed red-dot on the primary rail, a surefire tac-light mounted on the front sight tower, and a Blackhawk Single-point sling.

As for a bug out gun, I'd say this is about as good as you can get. Its *RELIABLE AND ACCURATE*. Isnt that just about all you expect from a weapon in that situation?

 

[bfoosh006]

Given your choices...The Carbon, gets the nod.....but, if the Carbon Fiber used in it was as durable/better then current Mil-Spec M-4 metal, I'm pretty sure the Mil. would use it to their advantage...( I would use an M-4 as a club, but not the Carbon) . I guess what I'm trying to say is...the Colt would be grabbed first, the Carbon would probably be thrown into the truck just because....

That said if you get the Carbon, get the Bushmaster brand one and get a Burris Fastfire II red dot sight to put on it, you can carry that combo and forget you are even carrying it. BTW, the "balance" of the Carbon has never felt "right", its kinda barrel heavy.http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_AZ-C15R97F.asp....thats the one I'd suggest.

Oops, I forgot some other comments, I've seen no feeding problems and the front hand guards REALLY need some kind of texture. I ended up using anti -slip tape.