Carry a DA gun with the safety on?

[Navy joe]

Someone else mentioned not liking carrying decocked DAs with the safety off, I thought that was the only way. Does anyone carry a decocked DA with the safety on by choice? Does anyone do so because their deptartment or other work group tells them too?

I ask because the Navy's version of Condition I for a M-9 pistol is magazine inserted, round chambered, safety on. To me that just screams "get me killed". I figure Joe average will crush the trigger for about 3 seconds before giving his gun the dumbfounded stare.
I have found that I like flap holsters better than the Safariland Level I rentention holsters we are also using because in a flap it is nobody's business where that safety is. Why do people feel the need to tinker with point and shoot simplicity?

Okay, I'll answer my own question. Because they figure bored watchstanders will fidget with their weapon and have an ND. Lets fix lack of training mechanically. Training which incidentally includes zero draws. A sad state when anyone who takes seriously the idea of carrying a gun in the military must learn on their own to include buying a pistol they don't really like just to practice.

Rant done. Any sane reasons for carrying a DA safety on?

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Because if someone takes it away from you it's harder for them to shoot you. They'll need a few seconds to figure the switches out, and you can take it back or run like hell.

 

[Logistar]

Beats me. I only carry DA and NEVER carry with the safety on.

Logistar

 

[Absolut]

with a little practice, flipping the safety is just part of the reaction and draw

 

[10-Ring]

I figured that if DA wheelguns, classic SIGs, Glocks & HK P7M8s can be carried safely w/o a safety even being available, I could carry my 92fs or my USP round chambered, hammer decocked & safety off.

 

[gvass]

"Because if someone takes it away from you it's harder for them to shoot you. They'll need a few seconds to figure the switches out,"

Ayoob's Theory.

I disagree.

First of all: If I am a normal citizen (as is), who carries concealed, It is my fault if someone is capable of taking away my gun.

The average pistol's safety aint so difficult to figure out, the scumbag could watch it in any action-movie. (Maybe the HK P7 is an interesting exception).

There much likely to forget to "safety off" in a dangerous situation (sudden dog attack for example) for the defendant him/herself.

Anyway: I do carry revolver) No safety, no gadgets, no slide, just draw, aim and pull the trigger. Fast, and 2 times)

 

[9mmepiphany]

it is indeed a training issue. with sufficent,and proper< training you can learn to flip that safety off as part of the draw. i

f you don't want to take the time to learn to use all the features of your gun fully, you alwways have the option off leaving the safety off. i know a couple of co-workers who even carry their 1911s that way...they say they've trained themselves not to put their finger on the trigger until they are ready to fire.

i personally like the beretta "g" (decocker) model of the beretta 92/96 better than the "fs" model...but that is because you can't activate the safety when racking your slide during clearence drills>

 

[WonderNine]

Am I the only one here that changes their mode of carry day by day?

Somedays I feel like carrying unchambered hammer down, other times I feel like carrying cocked & locked.

What's the big gawdam deal?

 

[tiberius]

IMHO, It doesn’t matter if you carry an M9 with the safety applied or not. No matter how you intend to carry it, the simple fact is that the safety may be applied even if you don’t think it is. Therefore when you draw the pistol you must sweep the safety to assure that the weapon is indeed ready to fire. Since you have to sweep anyway, you might as well keep the safety applied. It is just as fast either way with proper practice.

Of course this why the Walther style decocking safety (like the Beretta 92) is my absolute least favorite DA mechanism. It is simply inferior to relatively fail safe pure decockers (Sig) and the ones that only allow the safety to be applied on a cocked action (CZ).

 

[stans]

I carry a revolver, end of discussion for me!

 

[Walt Sherrill]

The other consideration is a negligent or accidental discharage if the gun is dropped or struck a blow.

Carrying DA with safety off is not an issue -- from that perspective -- if the gun has a firing pin block. Most newer guns have a FPB. Older guns might not.

Self defense, it seems to me, ought to be a study in KISS. The more you do to make it difficult for the bad guy, the more you do to make it difficult for you.

I carry cocked and locked, if the gun requires it, or hammer down, safety off (if the gun even allows safety on with hammer down -- some don't.)

 

[gvass]

"Somedays I feel like carrying unchambered hammer down, other times I feel like carrying cocked & locked."

Hmm,
it is not the best way. The well-trained (burned in) motoric movements are essentially in hi-stress situations.
In case of emergency you should not think about "I need to chamber, today?", "flip down the safety?".

Carry the same way, every day. It is good if your carry guns operates via the same way.

(Big Glock primary, mini-Glock secondary gun, or DAO auto+DAO J-frame revolver)

 

[enfield]

with a little practice, flipping the safety is just part of the reaction and draw

Right, and, when bird hunting, I know d@mn well the safety is on. I've lost count of the birds I've missed because I forgot to flip off the safety. Don't want that happening in a defensive situation, so I carry a DA/SA, decocked with the safety off. Carrying with the safety on may be right for you, but it ain't for me.

Don't even like carry guns to have a safety, if I can avoid it. On my other two carry guns, the only safety is the trigger.

I also don't like visibly cocked hammers and hammer spurs for concealed carry, but that's a different discussion.

 

[LynnMassGuy]

I carry a TDA with a round chambered and the safety off and the hammer down(my safety is also a de-cocker). I feel very secure with this configuration. I can't see any reason to have the safety on especially with the heavy, double action trigger pull on the first shot. If someone gets it out of my holster, the safety being off will be the least of my problems.(If someone did try to grab it from my holster I would drop the mag while they messed with the holster snap...I hope.)

 

[tiberius]

enfiled wrote:

Right, and, when bird hunting, I know d@mn well the safety is on. I've lost count of the birds I've missed because I forgot to flip off the safety. Don't want that happening in a defensive situation, so I carry a DA/SA, decocked with the safety off. Carrying with the safety on may be right for you, but it ain't for me.

You missed my point, perhaps I wasn't clear.

One of these days your gonna find that the safety is ON when you thought it was OFF. This is why safety deactivation MUST be part of your standard draw even if you do NOT use the safety. Not doing so is NOT tactically sound.

I also choose not to carry DA guns with decoking safties. I prefer C&L with my autos.

 

[enfield]

I agree. I'll change my procedure.

 

[DJL2]

It may be of concern to someone carring their pistol openly, but if your gun is concealed, how do they know you have it? My thoughts: for a concealed weapon the DA pistol with a safety on is a needless complication. A design that has a safety that may be accidentally engaged is a poor one.
Speaking of training, gun retention ought to part of it. I agree with the sentiments already mention with respect to not carrying combo safety/decocker type pistols. I have somewhat short finger and go a step further: I do not even consider using a pistol if it features slide mounted controls. I have no interest in a pistols whose controls I cannot activate from a firing grip, most especially the safety mechanism.

 

[Hellbore]

Am I the only one who has a gun that doesn't allow you to turn on the safety unless the hammer is cocked?

 

[tiberius]

Am I the only one who has a gun that doesn't allow you to turn on the safety unless the hammer is cocked?

Certainly not, but many guns use the Walther style decocking safety. I personally don't like them and it seems like most posters on this thread agree, but they are very common and be can be found on many/most Berettas and S&W's for example. The original poster was referring to the use of the M9, so they really don't get to select which pistol to use and are stuck with this style of safety.

 

[Zundfolge]

When I carried my Steyr M40 in a belly band I put the manual safety on ... same thing with my Makarov. But since I now have decent holsters for both (that cover the trigger with something harder then elastic), the safeties are off.

 

[Paladin7]

Given your perceived tactical situation, how you carry your pistol is a personal choice, I will give you my opinion.

I carry a DA/SA pistol on occassion and when I do the safety is on. I am carrying plainclothes. The reason I do, is simple. I have trained to swipe the safety off as part of the draw, much like you do with a 1911. It is not appreciably any slower and it is much safer. If I am disarmed the perp will need to figure out how to fire the pistol, which will give me time to get away, go for my backup weapon, or disarm him, either way the probability of my survival just went up.

True, allowing someone to get you into a position to take your gun should never happen. But guess what, it happens more frequently than you might think.

I also frequently carry revolvers and DAO autos and see the benefits and issues with both.

BTW on another note, 9mmepiphany mentioned in this thread that his co-workers are carrying cocked and unlocked 1911's. Wow, thats not smart. If you care at all about their safety and the safety of others, you should talk them out of that practice pronto.

Best Regards,

Paladin7

 

[WonderNine]

Hmm,
it is not the best way. The well-trained (burned in) motoric movements are essentially in hi-stress situations.
In case of emergency you should not think about "I need to chamber, today?", "flip down the safety?".

Oh well, I guess I won't be as tactical somedays as others.

 

[DJL2]

Maybe I am way out of line here in my thinking, but if the guy is right up in my face, my hands aren't going for my gun. I reckon there are just gonna be times when you think you can get the gun out but cannot for whatever reason. However, if you know its gonna be arms length or closer then for me it is a knife or my hands to the throat, groin, eyes etc. Perhaps the best advice is to know thyself and know thy enemy and act accordingly, however that may be.

 

[gvass]

"I put the manual safety on ... same thing with my Makarov. But since I now have decent holsters for both (that cover the trigger with something harder then elastic), the safeties are off."

The Makarov do not have any passive firing pin block, and not even a firing pin spring. I think it is too dangerous to carry off-safe. It could be AD when dropped.

 

[Jaco]

I carry with safety on, I carry a PPK, and it has been known to fire when dropped on the hammer.

Makes me think of an incident reported of a woman visiting a firearms dealer, to give her snubby in for a "service". She pointed the cocked snubby at the dealers forehead to ask him to clean it nicely for her. After the noise in the shop died down, he asked her why she carried it cocked. Her answer was that her husband cocks it for her because she cannot pull the trigger DA!