Carry Condition for CZ Pistols?

[Kind of Blued]

CZ makes a lot of variants of the 75, but I'm curious about the SA/DA version that includes a manual safety. In what condition is it intended to be carried?

Cocked & Locked with DA available for 2nd strike capability? If so, why doesn't it have a nice big accessible safety lever like on the 75 SA?

Or DA with subsequent shots SA? Does the safety decock the hammer?

 

[Kind of Blued]

I've been reading some more and it sounds like you can carry either way. However, it sounds like with a bazillion models, there isn't one that I like.

C&L Carry: Why is that safety so miniscule?!?!

DA Carry: You have to manually decock it?!?!

I don't like either scenario. Why not give it the nice big safety on the 75SA?

Why not give the 75 SA 2nd strike capability, even if you never use it?

Why not make every gun with "drop-free" mags?

Where's Armoredman?

 

[armoredman]

Right here, what's the beef?
Is that safety lever all that much smaller than a 1911 standard safety? I don't think so.
I manually decocked a Witness CZ clone for years with no issues, it's all in how safe you are
Besides, the CZ pistol carries very well in the half cock notch, where the deocking models drop the hammer to. You can manually decock to this position as easily as full down.
All those models and not one you like? Oh well, can't satisfy everyone.

 

[Kind of Blued]

I need to track one down and get my thumb on the safety to see how I like it.

I was just looking at the "non-US" site at the Phanton and Shadow models. The Shadow would be perfect if it had night sights. I might look into that one some more.

 

[Treo]

According to the manual for my 75B it is designed to be carried decocked (there is a 75BD BTW).

That's the way I carry all my Zs, I'm W/ Armored man W/ all the variations available if you can't find one you like you're damn nigh impossible to please anyway

 

[BlindJustice]

I have a standard CZ 75B

The normal convention for referring to a pistol that
in normal opertion starts with Double Action(DA/SA) and
then is SIngle Action(SA) for subsequent shots, is:

DA/SA

I manually drop the hammer to, as CZ refers to it,
the Safety notch. Many call the 'safety notch,' the
half cock position for the hammer. It is the same
position a CZ 75BD w/Decocker (& no thumb safety)
drops the hammer to for DA Mode.
With the hammer in the safety notch position the hammer
preset makes the DA trigger pull shorter in length.

I like the option of using the thumb safety if in SA mode
and I want to pause shooting either at the range or in the
field. The tab of the thumb safety leaves a bit to be desired
when comparing to a 1911 because:
* the lever is shorter although it does have serrations on both
the upper and lower sides, and takes more
effort to operate. I don't know about all 75Bs but my
thumb safety is stiff in operation. Another factor in
changing to a longer tab on the 75B thumb safety as I
look at it and compare to my 1911, the 75B's position of
this control is forward and higher than the 1911. The
1911 has room for a longer tab, the 75B with a longer tab
if put on safe in the upper position it might interfere with the
slide or at least be very close. For shooters who ride the
thumb safety it might be problematic depends on the user.

I'll check out the CZ 75B SA thumb safety as I would like a
bit larger tab but not one that would get close to the lower edge
of the slide.

The magazine not dropping is perhaps a european convention
I don't know, but the retention can be easily modified or the
part removed and replaced with the part that allows mag. drop
It's a $7 part AFAIK. At the range it's not an issue and actually
I like not worrying about dropping a mag and banging it up.

I guess it's all a matter of perception and user preference/use.

Randall

 

[BlindJustice]

Seems this thread is as much about the controls as
carry mode.

I went to the CZUSA web site and looked closely
at the standard 75B and 75B SA.

First in comparison to a 1911 and my prior mention that
the pivot point is higher than on a 1911 for the thumb
safety the slide release/lock and the thumb safety
are a bit closer physically fore and aft. This isn't too
surprizing as the CZ 75 design behind the chamber breech
seems more compact than a 1911.

Second, the SA only 75B does indeed have a different
thumb safety - the part that protrudes for thumb purchase
is longer and the way CZ made it so it doesn't go to high
on 'safe' with slide proximity,is the lever is built lower
then forward. I'll have to see about getting this part installed

Oh, the other difference in 75B and 75B SA controls and
it is mentioned in the SA's description, is the trigger
is more straight up and down and not as much of a curve
as the standard 75B.

Randall
.

 

[Kind of Blued]

The normal convention for referring to a pistol that
in normal opertion starts with Double Action(DA/SA) and
then is SIngle Action(SA) for subsequent shots, is:

DA/SA

Agreed, which is the source of my confusion in the first place.

CZ listing them as SA/DA meant, to me, that they were meant to be carried C&L with the DA as a sort of backup should a round fail. This is similar to Taurus' 24/7 which uses just such a mechanism. I guess I just see it as them trying to make everybody happy with one pistol. I think anybody that carries a gun for delf-defense knows if they prefer DA/SA or C&L. I see nothing but problems with having a gun that can do either and deciding that you want to carry one way M-F and another way on the weekends.

That being said, I think if you're carrying DA/SA you should have a decocker, and if you're carrying C&L you should have a safety which feels like a 1911-style safety.

I don't see the benefit of this "in between" pistol.

 

[BlindJustice]

I think yah oughta lighten up on the DA/SA CZ 75B - you should consider that it came out this way in 1975. It was innovative
offering a frame mounted safety like the 1911 in a time when the choices
were what S&W 39/59, Beretta 92 with the butt mag relese
and others that had the slide mounted reverse movement safety.

Jeff Cooper tested the original CZ 75 and endorsed even though it was a
9x19 chambered weapon because it had the 'correct' thumb safety action for his standards. Name another platform that is as adaptable in terms of
manual of arms before you slough off the basic platform/design.

I like my standard CZ 75B for a platform I can carry concealed in DA mode,
as well as the nightstand gun in DA mode... but also have the option of just putting it on safe in the field for precise SA shots for the 'hunt' as it were nice trigger short reset in SA mode. Getting real comfy with it after
1000 rounds, I don't know when the first decocker version came along but
I would bet it was a move by CZ to also attract handgunners who start with a DA/SA decocker or Glock striker fire shooters who are willilng to expand their handgun experience. It spans both areas from the 1911 side as well as the other. If some insecure fumblegutts can't wrap their brain or ability to manually drop a hammer.... well there you have it.

R-

 

[Kind of Blued]

Name another platform that is as adaptable in terms of
manual of arms before you slough off the basic platform/design.

My point is that this "adaptability" seems to be a compromise. I don't see the advantage of being able to carry a gun in two different modes when the gun, it seems to me, accomodates neither of these modes completely and in the "ideal" manner.

That being said, all I've been wondering is if my concerns have ever posed a problem to you folks. It seems the general consensus, is "no". It might make more sense if I knew what everybody was used to before they bought and adopted their CZs as carry guns.

For example, I'm personally more used to larger 1911 safeties and Sig decocking mechanisms. Consequently, the safety looks small, frictionless, and easy to miss, and the lack of a decocker on a gun which one desires to decock every time it is loaded seems silly.

I think pulling the trigger of a loaded gun that you don't want to fire is a bad idea. Period. If that makes me a "fumblegutt", so be it. As for the safety, hopefully I can go get my hands on one soon and see how it feels.

I'll probably find it substantial, but I'm curious, does anyone know if the larger safety lever found on the 75 SA or Shadow models can be installed on, say a stock 75 SP-01?

 

[BlindJustice]

Seems to me you are ignoring the way the CZ 75 has evolved and when it came on the market. You fail to come up with any other platform in adaptabiltiy and just fall back on DA/SA & decocker So always the more
inaccurate - that's documented in tests DA first shot for yah, ok....

Go with what works for your own comfort zone and abilities as
well as perception of platform performance

and after all this you admit you've never even handled one, and I'm
an owner of one, who comes from the 1911 side - USN I held the medal
for markmanship with a 1911.

Armchair QBs

SHeeish...

 

[Kind of Blued]

If I had handled one I wouldn't have started this thread.

I had a few reasonable questions which were presented in coherent sentences. Liking a gun is one thing, calling people names from behind an online persona because they see a potential problem with it, is another. Thanks anyway.

 

[armoredman]

And lets end this by saying give one a try, and if you don't like it, then that's OK - there are LOTS of choices in defensive sidearms on the market today, and one is probably going to fit you just as well as my CZ fits me. If we all liked the same thing, this would be a boring world.

 

[Majic]

That being said, I think if you're carrying DA/SA you should have a decocker, and if you're carrying C&L you should have a safety which feels like a 1911-style safety.

I don't see the benefit of this "in between" pistol.

I think safely decocking a pistol should be a function of the user not a mechanical device. All a safety lever has to be is easy to reach and easy to manipulate with positive engagements.
The CZ pistol offered users the ability to carry either way at a time when most other makers didn't (which was over 30 years ago now). If their system doesn't suit you then it's just not for you. Nothing is perfect for everyone as we all have our own preferences.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Agreed. Thanks Majic & armoredman. I'm looking forward to fiddling with a 75 the next time I see one in a shop, and I'm definitely going to keep my eyes peeled for a 75 SP-01 Shadow.

I've noticed a few guys reviewing it stateside but don't see any of them for sale anywhere online. Except for the sights, it's the exact pistol I'd have CZ build if I had my druthers.

 

[armoredman]

Call 1-800-955-4486, and ask for a CZ authorized dealer near you, and availability of the Shadow.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Awesome. I know of one, but they're not that close. Thanks armoredman.

 

[everallm]

The pistol shown, the SP-01 has an ambidextrous safety with the lever mounted on both sides of the slide.

I am right handed and comfortably use both my thumb and/or my trigger finger to lock and unlock. Particularly if you are holding the weapon with gloves on (and it's bloody raining and cold and why did I agree to go shooting at an outdoor range......... ) you can use thumb and trigger finger at the same time to engage/disengage the safety.

With the firing pin block as well the weapon is safe to carry chambered in the following configurations.

Chambered round, cocked hammer, locked safety, SA
Chambered round, cocked hammer, unlocked safety (less a good idea), SA
Chambered round, hammer at half cock (safety cannot engage), ****DA/SA
Chambered round, hammer at full rest, DA/SA

The **** is because at half cock, the trigger actually releases back to a position halfway between the DA and SA position and makes the first DA trigger squeeze both a little lighter as well as easier for those with smaller hands of shorter fingers.

 

[BlindJustice]

I'd like to say what I think of the Si0g Sauer P2nn line where a lever
is dedicated to takedown - however I've never shot one but I do know
they have a fine rep. for accuracy. I would also like to compare it's DA
and SA trigger pulls to a CZ 75B but until I do shoot one and tear it
down, I'll rely on the experience of others.

Randall