Carry Question

[TexasFred]

I hope this is the right place to post this:


I work security in a high rise building in downtown houston. I'm sure if you think real hard about a corporate headquarters in houston that could have a disgruntled former employee who lost all his 401K in the company stock, you can guess where I work. I used to work grave yard and have recieved many hateful and threatening calls from former employees and random people. I sometimes fear one will drink too much and do something stupid and come down here with a gun.

Now Texas handgun law states that you can not carry a weapon into a business that has a sign stating that it is forbidden, and the building I work in has this sign. Which means that no employee or contracted employee can legally conceal carry into the building. The only people that have a gun are HPD officers in the building. We usually have one HPD officer on the premisses at all times.

Now with all that said, my question is would you carry even though you know it is illegal under texas law? Do you think one LEO is sufficient for 50 floors? Do you think i'm over reacting? Any and all replies are welcome!

 

[Sisco]

Guess maybe I'd make friends with the LEO's on duty there and get their opinion on if they'd do anything about it or not.

 

[CleverNickname]

From my limited knowledge of Texas law, if you are employed as a security officer, you wouldn't be able to carry under the authority of your CHL while working, even if the 30.06 sign wasn't there.

§ 1702.161. Security Officer Commission Required

(b) An individual employed as a security officer may not knowingly carry a firearm during the course of performing duties as a security officer unless the commission has issued a security officer commission to the individual.

§ 1702.169. Firearm Restrictions

A commissioned security officer may not carry a firearm unless:

(1) the security officer is:

(A) engaged in the performance of duties as a security officer; or

(B) traveling directly to or from the place of assignment;

(2) the security officer wears a distinctive uniform indicating that the individual is a security officer; and

(3) the firearm is in plain view, except as provided by Section 1702.206.

If I was in your shoes, I'd think about getting a different job where I could carry, if it was that important. Although I wouldn't necessarily advocate it, a big part of your choice whether to carry illegally should also factor in whether the possible punishment was a misdemeanor or a felony.

 

[Drjones]

Well, we here at The Fir...er, The High Road, would NEVER advocate illegal activities.

That said:

1) Look for a new job.

2) Better 12 than 6.


Welcome!
Drjones

 

[Dave R]

If it were me, I would not risk my job. I would carry what I could legally. Spray? Folding knife?

And a radio. And try to make sure there was something good on the other end of the radio.

 

[ArmyCop]

As long as I have a choice I'll never take a job that keeps me from exercising my right to be armed. If it's not mentioned in any of my interviews or papers I have to sign upon hiring in I'll take that for an okay to carry and just keep it private - no one's business but my own.

 

[TexasFred]

I know that it is illegal to carry in the building and the easy answer would be to change jobs but other factors prohibit me from doing so. Isn't it better to face charges of carrying illegally while your alive rather than obeying the law and ending up dead? Also consider that the gun that is being carried would only be used in the most extreme situations. What if the LEO is wounded or killed? Then that leaves the rest of the people in the building open prey. If you could save your own life or the life of just one person, wouldn't it be worth being prosecuted for illegal concealed carry? I'm not saying that i'm gonna start packing heat to work every day but I just wanted to pick some brains over this line of thought.

 

[spacemanspiff]

whats more important? your life or your job?
i can get a different job, but i cant resurrect myself.
least not yet anyways. damn gubmint putting restrictions on stemcell research.

 

[Wakal]

Does the building have a full 30.06 sign posted, or just the worthless "gun with a slash" sign?

And second...concealed carry is just that. No one should know you have a firearm on you. Period.



Alex

 

[Trisha]

Carried by six or judged by twelve.

Columbine could've been stopped almost imediately, if any had found the iron blood fo courage - or been armed, trained, and dedicated...

In no way do I mean to trivialize your dilemma by pontificating platitudes: stop micro-managing this and listen to your heart.

Trisha

 

[TexasFred]

Thank you guys for your imput. It is greatly appreciated. I'm sure this has been discussed before at TFL so thank you for replying.

 

[Pointman]

What is the penalty for violating a 30.06 posting? Is it an infraction or something that could cause TexasFred to loose his rights to his CWL or to own firearms at all?

 

[thumbtack]

Do what you have to do to stay alive and don't talk about it.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Let's say you aren't a security guard. The gun prohibited sign should be the 30.06 sign. If you do carry and get caught, the law you are breaking is one of trespassing. That's it.

Of course, chances are that if there is a posting in the building, then there will likely be one in your employee handbook. So, being discovered means potentially getting arrested for trespassing and then losing your job for breaking the rules.

The "rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" crowd has a good point in that you should not let yourself be in jeopardy. So if you carry a gun and end up having to use it to protect your life while performing your security guard duties, then realize being alive does come at the expense of the job loss, prosecution of trespassing, and prosecution for not legally being qualified to be an armed security guard. Then count on being sued in civil court by the person you shot or his family. After all, you weren't supposed to have a gun.

What most folks don't really give much consideration to is that if you have to use a gun to save your life, you hopefully remain alive but will then have to deal with numerous other issues ranging from post traumatic stress, possible arrest, legal fees, confiscation of your weapon (and CHL if you have one), etc.

As for changing jobs, think about it. You are working as an unarmed security officer in a building that housed a company that pissed off virtually every employee who lost much or all of their retirement pensions. Those former employees may or may not be able to separate you from the company. In other words, you are a symbol of the company to a certain extent, especially if you have to turn said people away. Do you really want to be there?

If you choose to stay, you might consider buying and wearing body armor, getting additional security or non-gun self defense, etc. In other words, strive to be proficient in other means of protecting yourself if you are not allowed to carry a firearm.

Bottom line, you may be there to keep the property secure, but also to keep yourself alive.

 

[King]

You would be taking a significant risk. Loss of job is one thing but you may also lose your CHL if you knowingly violate the legal posted sign.

If you're dead set on keeping this job and taking the risk that you'll be discovered, you best keep it very, very quiet and very, very concealled.

 

[sonoranjack]

I have worked as a security guard. I worked for contract security agencys only. I make shure that it's clear that I will be armed on all jobs. I also make it clear that I will not work unarmed on any job. Why do I do this? I don't want to be stuck in your situation. In your situation you choose an unarmed security job. Ya either have to live w/ it, or find an armed security job, or pick another line of work.

 

[HS/LD]

As it is illegal to make a law that goes against the Constitution, and the said Constitution doesn't say anything about not being able to carry 'coz your boss said you couldn't...

I would always excersie my right to defend myself first....

Obey the current local laws second.

Another thought would be:
"what is the penalty for being caught carrying by your company?"
"what is the penalty for being caught NOT carrying by someone out to kill ya?"


HS/LD

 

[TheeBadOne]

Try to make sure your office is not by a supervisors.......(most likely target)

 

[Double Naught Spy]

And I stand very corrected by previous posts that it is against the law to carry a firearm if you are supposed to be an unarmed security guard. My reference was only in relation to the 30.06 regs.

Contrary to HS/LD, the Constitution does not say a lot of things you can get in trouble for and if you go to court with the argument that it was not precluded by the Constitution, you will lose.

That company property is private property and owners or those in control of the property have the rights to place certain limitations on what happens there, such as whether or not you can carry a gun there. Your 'right' to carry a gun there does not supercede their rights concerning their property. Also, as an employee, you voluntarily give up certain rights in exchange for wages. That means people get to tell you what to do and when to do it and if you decide to exercise your right of free speech to tell them that you don't like how they do things, they can fire you for insubordination. That isn't in the Constitution either, but it sure holds up in court time and time again.

And sure enough, you have to do whatever you need to do to defend yourself and should you have to do it while breaking the law, you will be alive but may face charges because defending yourself brought attention to the fact that you were breaking the law. Take Freeman in New York that shot an intruder in his Long Island apartment. The shooting was fine, but he didn't have a permit for his pistol and his pistol as well as his rifles were taken from him for violating the law. No doubt he did what he needed to do to defend himself, but had he had the proper permit, he would still have all his guns. The rifles, by the way, were legal. Had he shot the bad guy with one of his rifles, he would still have all his guns as well, except maybe the one used to shoot as it would be taken for ballistics study.

 

[Standing Wolf]

You need another place of business, friend!

 

[teppo-shu]

No offense, Fred, but just what kind of "security" do you provide in the middle of downtown Houston, Texas if you're NOT armed??

And do you honestly think that any nut-case or former employee or p/o'd stockholder is going to pay any attention to the sign that says weapons are prohibited? Maybe if he's nice he'll check his Bushie with you while he proceeds to torch the board room?!

Let your conscience be your guide. Or why don't you just ask the friendly HPD officer who's on premises with you? He actually might welcome the backup!!

 

[igor]

Ahem... what kind of an employer do you have, obviously not even considering taking this discussion through your chain of command and arriving at a solution? Or has this resource already been depleted?

What is an employer's responsibility for an employee's work environment safety there anyhow?