Carrying firearm into California

[Northslope Nimrod]

Heading to California. I want to have a gun with me....not to carry on my person but just in the vehicle.
Can someone please post the relevant California statutes.
Will I be ok to have it in the passenger compartment if it is unloaded?
Must it be locked in a case? Must it be in the trunk?
Must my firearm be California approved.....or does that only apply to california residents?
I leave today....so I have little time for research.

Any help?

 

[Ravenslair]

Heading to California. I want to have a gun with me....not to carry on my person but just in the vehicle.
Can someone please post the relevant California statutes.
Will I be ok to have it in the passenger compartment if it is unloaded?
Must it be locked in a case? Must it be in the trunk?
Must my firearm be California approved.....or does that only apply to california residents?
I leave today....so I have little time for research.

Any help?

Here you go (from packing.org):

Penal Code 12025.

* (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:
* (1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
* (2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
* (3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

Penal Code 12026.1.

* (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm:
* (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment.
* (2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container.

Penal Code 12030

* (l) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from having a loaded weapon, if it is otherwise lawful, at his or her place of residence, including any temporary residence or campsite.

Penal Code 12031.

* (a)(1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

Penal Code 12034.

* (a) It is a misdemeanor for a driver of any motor vehicle or the owner of any motor vehicle, whether or not the owner of the vehicle is occupying the vehicle, knowingly to permit any other person to carry into or bring into the vehicle a firearm in violation of Section 12031 of this code or Section 2006 of the Fish and Game Code.

 

[Ravenslair]

Also keep in mind CA does not recognize any other state's CCW permits. Do not carry concealed in CA if you do not have a CCW permit from CA. Basically, when I am driving to the range, the ammo is in an ammo can and the handguns are locked in a case.

 

[billwiese]

For travellers into CA:

[*] DO make sure that you do not bring in any hi-cap (over 10 rounds) magazines for your autoloaders. It's legal to have guns that take the hicap mags, just cannot import the hicap mags themselves.

[*] DON'T bring in anything that's an assault weapon. This includes semiauto pistols w/threaded bbls.

[*] Don't just drive around all the time with a handgun. Even with gun locked up, unloaded, etc. you have to have a specific destination (authorized shooting area, gunshop, visting another's home where gun is allowed, leaving state, etc.) when travelling w/secured handgun(s). This is relatively little-known, and I don't believe vigorously enforced, etc. If stopped, you're either headed out of state or going home from shooting or taking your gun to show to your friend


Bill Wiese
San Jose

 

[ArmedBear]

The definitive answers are here:

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/index.html

If the gun is a long gun that is not on the "assault weapons" list, then you can haul it around, unloaded, all you want. Some cities (e.g. San Diego) have laws against "brandishing", which means you have to keep the gun out of sight, like in a gun sock or case. It need not be locked, though.

Handguns have to be unloaded and in a locked container, which includes a gun rug with a little lock on the zipper, or in the trunk. They just want to make sure you can't defend yourself. Again, "brandishing" laws may apply.

Unloaded means no ammunition in or attached to any part of the gun. It is not clear to me from the wording of the law whether a loaded detachable magazine that is kept separate from the gun constitutes a violation, but clearly the magazine could be called "part of the gun".

"Importing" a magazine or a gun that holds more than 10 rounds is verboten. This does not include a .22 or lever gun with a fixed tube mag, so a Marlin 60, Remington Fieldmaster, Winchester 94 Trail's End, etc. would all be legal, even though they hold more than 10 rounds.

Bottom line:

* No AR or AK based guns, or .50 BMG (similar calibers are okay, just not .50 BMG specifically).
* Long guns in general are not regulated very tightly, except those on the AW list
* Black powder guns are essentially unregulated, but they do count as a firearm if you're carrying them loaded, so relavent laws still must be followed.
* You can have a loaded gun in your tent, parked camper, and anywhere else you can legally shoot -- generally outside populated areas. This includes open carry of concealable weapons; the law specifies "carried openly in a belt holster".
* CA Fish and Game defines "loaded" as "one in the chamber". The State defines "loaded" as "an unexpended round attached to the gun." Hunting regulations and carry regulations are sometimes contradictory.
* Due to a long history of Latino gang activity in big cities, California has some arcane and draconian knife laws. Carrying a concealed knife above a certain size is a felony. Carrying a concealed, loaded pistol is just a misdemeanor. Some types of knives are illegal. See the page I posted if you carry a knife.
* Other oddball things are illegal as well, like dummy grenades. Go figure.

Welcome to the PRK. I'm thinkin' 'bout leavin'.

 

[ArmedBear]

One more word about AW's

Like Bill says, threaded-barrel pistols are "assault weapons". This includes a Walther P22. California initially approved it, then forced S&W to replace all the barrels ex post facto.

Other "Assault Weapons" regulations, however, exempt rimfires. A folding stock 10-22 with a pistol grip is legal; a similar stock on a Mini-14 is not.

Kel-Tec SU-16's are legal, IF they are the models that will not fire when folded. Takedown guns are also legal.

Class III? Forget it, unless you're in the movie biz. In the movies, convicted violent felons (e.g. Sean Penn) can handle machine guns that squeaky-clean law-abiding citizens aren't allowed to touch.

 

[ArmedBear]

Passenger compartment OK, BTW

Oh yeah, it's fine to have an unlocked long gun on the seat next to you -- subject to "brandishing" requirements in some locales, or a handgun in a gun rug with a lock on the zipper.

I do that all the time.

California is schizophrenic about guns. It's pretty hunter-friendly, with lots of public land, etc. And self-defense law on private property is pretty good, though there are those nightmare civil suits of course. But CA is not friendly to self defense outside the home or business.

 

[billwiese]

If the gun is a long gun that is not on the "assault weapons" list, then you can haul it around, unloaded, all you want.

Not true.

As 'Librarian' pointed out on CalGuns.Net (this has been much discussed there), John Machtinger points out in his book, How to Own a Gun in California and Stay Out of Jail:

"You must go directly to, and come directly from, the event
described in the exception with only reasonable necessary
deviations (side trips)." [pg. 51, 1999 edition]

See, the law is constructed in PC 12025 so that you are guilty of carrying concealed (well, concealable firearm) except for specific, limited exemptions/ exceptions listed in PC 12026. While the locked & unloaded exemption is fairly obvious (at least within CA ) it is also subject to this:

12026.2 (a) Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:
.
.
.
(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a), while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d), and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances

This does not affect long guns that are not assault weapons. If you have a non-AW rifle or shotgun it can be transported unlocked and unloaded and you can travel with it all day long.

So use care in transporting even locked & unloaded handguns. I do not know of any prosecutions, and this may be difficult to prove, but convictions of all sorts are generally assisted by folks talking their way into jail. Better to lose the gun or even be arrested than argue w/cop - fight your battles in court and don't give up information.


Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

 

[Ellie]

Hey, are you my husband?

Armedbear, are you my loving, handsome and well-armed husband? Just curious, as you seem to know a lot about CA firearms law, and are using part of my man's nickname.

Now GET TO WORK!

love,
me

edit: {laugh} nope, I see it's not you - my guy has always been a member of the Libertarian party, though I fear he'll be leaving to join the liberty caucus of the Republican party if the libs don't get less Vietnam-era moonbat on several of their stances before the next election.

edit 2: {extra giggles} oh wait, it is you, isn't it?

 

[ArmedBear]

Re-read what you quoted from me.



You quoted me as saying:

"If the gun is a long gun that is not on the 'assault weapons' list, then you can haul it around, unloaded, all you want."

You said that was wrong, but then wrote:

"If you have a non-AW rifle or shotgun it can be transported unlocked and unloaded and you can travel with it all day long."

How is that different?

WRT a handgun: if you are traveling to a place where a handgun is legal, you can travel with it, locked and unloaded. You can have it in a hotel room. You can have it at a campsite. You can have it at a range, or anywhere outside the city where you can hunt or plink. You can stop for lunch. It depends what the original question pertains to, really. Since he doesn't want it loaded, I assume he wants to hunt or shoot recreationally, or use it for self-defense at a temporary residence. If my assumptions are wrong, he must definitely heed your warning.

So, while your caveat is important to note, it is NOT illegal in California to travel with the gun in the same way as it is in some other states where you can only take it from your driveway to the range and back, no stopping for a burger. Again, assumptions and context...

Northslope, what do you plan to do with the gun?

 

[billwiese]

You quoted me as saying:

"If the gun is a long gun that is not on the 'assault weapons' list, then you can haul it around, unloaded, all you want."

You said that was wrong, but then wrote:

"If you have a non-AW rifle or shotgun it can be transported unlocked and unloaded and you can travel with it all day long."

How is that different?

Perhaps we got our contexts screwed up in the back-and-forth. My reply at the end of the quote above was referring only to long guns, and I thought your reply was generally for all guns (incl handguns). If not, my misinterpretation.

Yes, non-AW long guns have no travel restrictions. Handguns (really, concealable weapons) and AWs do have travel restrictions.

WRT a handgun: if you are traveling to a place where a handgun is legal, you can travel with it, locked and unloaded. You can have it in a hotel room. You can have it at a campsite. You can have it at a range, or anywhere outside the city where you can hunt or plink. You can stop for lunch. It depends what the original question pertains to, really. Since he doesn't want it loaded, I assume he wants to hunt or shoot recreationally, or use it for self-defense at a temporary residence. If my assumptions are wrong, he must definitely heed your warning.

So, while your caveat is important to note, it is NOT illegal in California to travel with the gun in the same way as it is in some other states where you can only take it from your driveway to the range and back, no stopping for a burger. Again, assumptions and context...

Um, the way 12026.2(b) is written you really pretty much have to be going to/from an 'authorized' destination (meaning home, range, friends' homes or businesses that tolerate your handguns, out of state destinations, etc.) You just can't leave a (locked, unloaded) handgun in your truck and drive around for weeks at a time.

It's unclear whether this CA law includes stopping for a burger, how big the deviation from the path is allowable for said burger, etc. This is murky stuff. The law as written could readily be construed to be as strong as Maryland's specific destination law - don't infer lack of strength of law from lack of (known) prosecutions.

I have not heard of specific 'loose destination' busts or case law relating to this. But if you're pulled over by a cop and handgun's somehow discovered and you're asked about trip's origin/destination, have a ready answer that is not challengable and that is not a lie, or don't say anything and resolve it in court. (Lying to a cop could be hindering investigation, etc.)

Again, a person driving into CA for a trip and following the locked container/unloaded rule could still bumble into this other destination restriction. If he's staying for a few days in a hotel/motel, he likely (and wisely) won't leave the cased gun in his room - so he'll be travelling about general with it, without a specific shooting destination. He'll be spending significant time at shopping centers, touristy areas, restaurants, etc. which would violate 12026.2(b)'s
'reasonable necessity for deviations'.

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

 

[Standing Wolf]

Would someone please show me where it says all that in the Second Amendment? I seem to have missed it.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Would someone please show me where it says all that in the Second Amendment? I seem to have missed it.

It's right there -- about halfway down page 238 ...

 

[TallPine]

I refuse to enter California at all

I'll spend my money in free states, thank you

With MT license plates, I figure I would get stopped and searched within 10 miles after crossing the border into CA.

 

[5.56]

Ca?

I can see why I have no need to visit CA. Seems to be rather nuts in the gun laws. I prefer to be able to go to the range with the class III stuff and the Armalite AR50 .50 BMG Here in Ohio, as a courtesy to she sheriff's office, I usually call them and tell them I will be lighting up some class III stuff just so when or if they get calls about them being heard, they are able to handle the calls without going on the alert. I am not required to do this, but it seems like an easier method. I have been shooting the toys here for 26 yrs now with no problems. The local law enforcement folks have shown up a time or two. usually with the same request.........can we shoot them too? You folks in CA need to get some new blood in office to change those laws.

5.56

 

[Derby FALs]

If you are too afraid to take steps to protect yourself in PRK then you deserve anything that happens to you. Or, you could stay the hell away from there.

 

[backphil]

Heading to California. I want to have a gun with me....not to carry on my person but just in the vehicle.
Can someone please post the relevant California statutes.
Will I be ok to have it in the passenger compartment if it is unloaded?
Must it be locked in a case? Must it be in the trunk?
Must my firearm be California approved.....or does that only apply to california residents?
I leave today....so I have little time for research.

Any help?

Since "northslope" has not yet responded to his thread, let me be the first ask him . . . "why" do you want to have a gun with you?

If you simply want to transport it in a legal manner, then all of the good respondents to this thread have already provided objective information. However, if your purpose is to exercise your 2nd Amendment right, as defined by California state law . . . why bother?

 

[No_Brakes23]

I believe that carrying an SKS or Garand in a case, unloaded, with the clips next to it is perfectly legal.

Some LEOs have tried telling me that it is illegal to have mags loaded, though. Good thing Strippers and EnBlocs are not Mags, right?