Carrying in National Parks

[SRMohawk]

Hey Fellas,
I did a search to get information on this illegal activity and found some truly interesting comments. But as to a specific question I have, I found nothing directly addressing it. Ergo the question: Just what kind of fine and/or jail time am I looking at if my best friend and I were to be hiking the Continental Divide Trail from Glacier to the Tetons and were forced to put a couple .475 slugs into a bear (ending it) while traversing a stretch thereof that passes through a national park? Mind you, I understand that carrying any firearm is strictly verboten in our National Parks. But as fellow member 'Gunsmith' pointed out at a related thread, the bears aren't forbidden from carrying their claws and teeth. Consequently, I just wouldn't go into bear country, national park or not, without something a little more reliable at stopping a 1200 lb grizzly than pepper spray. So withstanding not getting into a confrontation with a pissed off, scared, or just confused grizzly, the point of carrying a firearm in a national park is moot as far as I'm concerned (the authorities would never know I had it). And I would do everything short of using deadly force against such a predator in the first place (as long as the circumstances permitted). After all, I've always had an aversion to the idea of hunting large predators (e.g. bears, lions, sharks, wolves, crocodiles). I want something that will contribute to my collection of exotic game recipes.

But consider a worst-case scenario, gentlemen: my buddy and I are diddly-boppin' down a stretch of the CDT that falls within the confines of Glacier or Yellowstone, talkin' and laughin' about our wives, kids, hobbies, and escatological things when suddenly ole' Teddy appears, guarding an elk or sheep carcass or something. We slowly back away. Uh-oh, Teddy's charging. Left hand goes right for the chest holstered .475 Linebaugh and out of mortal fear ole' Teddy gets the first one in the face and then a second wherever I can get it into him. Then, not more than 30 minutes later and maybe a mile-and-a-half down the trail, we suddenly find ourselves surrounded by park rangers on horseback with guns drawn!

 

[atlctyslkr]

Here's the official law (which you may have already read)

http://www.packing.org/state/all_united_states/

Your punishment (if any) probably depends on the park ranger that busts you. It is legal if you have a hunting license but doesn't sound like you're hunting.

I asked a park ranger once about this rule and he said the intent of the law was to keep people from engaging in illegal hunting. I have never had a park ranger ask to search my gear.

If I was going into known bear country I'd proably do it anyway and try to be discreet about it. It is legal to carry firearms on BLM and NFS lands, you could alawys claim you didn't know the difference.

 

[fletcher]

IIRC, National Park = No guns, National Forest = most likely, but contact the staff.

 

[stevelyn]

Fletcher is correct. Carry is prohibited on Nazi Park Circus lands. Other federal lands defer to laws of the states.

 

[KIDGLOCK]

S.S.S.


Shoot Shovel Shutup.

 

[MikeK]

Not necessarily in a national park, my brother in Montana said "If you have to kill a grizzly and are lucky enough to survive - dig a hole and bury it."

 

[Smurfslayer]

Help repeal the National Parks ban on self defense!

You can help get this silly self defense ban overturned. Click the link in my signature...

 

[TallPine]

"If you have to kill a grizzly and are lucky enough to survive - dig a hole and bury it."

So where do you find a holster to carry a backhoe ...?

 

[MikeK]

tallpine - I guess he figured he wouldn't survive a fight with a grizzly. I'll ask him about the backhoe holster - I'm sure he has one.

 

[mete]

Some states like PA also prohibit carrying in state parks.

 

[Frohickey]

I asked a park ranger once about this rule and he said the intent of the law was to keep people from engaging in illegal hunting. I have never had a park ranger ask to search my gear.

If the intent of the law was to keep people from engaging in illegal hunting, why not say illegal hunting is illegal. Oh wait. Kind of the same thing as coming up with an illegal immigration law where they give not-amnesty to illegals.

 

['Card]

(2) Weapons, traps or nets may be carried, possessed or used:
(i) At designated times and locations in park areas where:
(A) The taking of wildlife is authorized by law in accordance with Sec. 2.2 of this chapter;
(B) The taking of fish is authorized by law in accordance with Sec. 2.3 of this part.

So according to that, it's perfectly legal for me to carry my pistol when fishing in a National Park?

I guess I'm relieved to hear that. I do a lot of fishing (smallmouth bass, mostly) from my kayak in the New River Gorge National Park in WV, and I've worn a pistol on my hip (openly, non-concealed) on pretty much every trip for the last 10 years or so. During that time I can think of at least 4 occasions when I've had conversations with a Park Ranger, while wearing the pistol, and none of them has ever so much as mentioned it.

Kind of disturbing though, to think that if I was hiking, instead of fishing, that I'd be breaking some kind of arcane, badly-worded law.

 

[garrett1955]

sorry no answers to your questions, but you are going to LOVE hiking in Glacier nat. park. two summers ago my family and I hiked the tarmigan trail up to the tarmigan tunnel, in Glacier park. It was simply amazing. the hike was only 14 mi. but not bad for flatlanders like us in one day! ...and Glacier doesn't see the traffic like yellowstone does, much nicer, also take the drive on the Road To the Sun Highway if you can.


have fun, and be safe.

oh ps. no park ranger ever searched us. Do what you need to do.

 

[Srigs]

National Forests you can carry if you have the state's permit to carry! In National Parks, don't ask don't tell.

 

[TallPine]

In Montana, you can carry concealed outside of city limits without a permit

 

[Taurus 66]

Not necessarily in a national park, my brother in Montana said "If you have to kill a grizzly and are lucky enough to survive - dig a hole and bury it."

I wouldn't be sticking around long enough to dig a hole. I'd be gone like yesterday. If I'm facing a potential fines or jail time for defending my life, I'm going to try my very best to avoid that penalty.

 

[Car Knocker]

National Forests you can carry if you have the state's permit to carry!

Perhaps in Minnesota you need a state permit to carry in a National Forest but I'm not aware of any permit being required in any Western state.

 

[Mannlicher]

Mete says:

Some states like PA also prohibit carrying in state parks.

Jeb Bush, the Gov. of FL signed into law on 6/7/06, HB-1029. This law repeals a number of older state laws, and allows possession of firearms in State Parks and National Forests.
Problem is that the law allows 'reasonable' time for the DEP (which controls the parks), and Game & Fish, which controls other areas, to promulgate, and post new rules. According to a buddy at the State's Attorney's office, Game and Fish, and DEP fought the new law, and that they are going to drag their feet for a l-o-n-g time. Until then, the old regs are in effect.
I emailed and called several people today at DEP and Game & Fish for clarification. The nice folks at District II, Florida Parks, say they have not heard of any new law, and would have to seek guidance from their legal dept.
I plan a hike tommorrow in a State Park, and will exercise my rights under this new law. I have a copy of the law, and the press release about it, and will carry those docs with me. I have never been questioned or stopped before about carrying, and don't expect any trouble tommorrow.

 

[Zen21Tao]

Florida's new gun rights bills

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060609/LOCAL/60609004/1078/news

There were actually three other bills passed in Florida that support gun rights as well. In addition to the ability to carry a firearm in state and national parks there are also new laws that:

1. Protect the amount of land available for hunting
2. Allow people to retain their firearms during a state of emergency
3. Keep information associated with concealed weapons permit holders private.

Also, notice what those that are against the right to carry in parks and forrests are calling the bill:

Another bill Bush signed was supported by Florida's National Rifle Association. It ensures that the number of acres dedicated to public hunting stays the same, or is expanded annually.

Floridians with a gun permit can now continue to carry their weapon during a state of emergency under another bill Bush signed.

Bush also signed a bill allowing gun owners to bring their weapons into Florida's national forests and state parks, although they can't hunt.

Supporters say law-abiding people should be able to defend themselves in natural areas, but opponents, who refer to the bill as the ''shoot the camper legislation,'' say the measure could create a safety hazard for swimmers, campers and picnickers.

Florida's First Amendment Foundation, a nonprofit organization, opposed a bill Bush signed to keep secret the personal information on concealed weapons permits or applications.

Advocates for gun rights said the measure was needed to keep the information on the permits out of the hands of people who might want to target them for a crime. Rep. Sandy Adams, R-Orlando, said she filed the bill after a TV station put a list of permit holders on its Web site and lawmakers received numerous complaints for people worried about the information being disclosed.

 

[KINGMAX]

No guns - North Carolina state parks

I know for a fact guns of any type are prohibited in the state parks of North Carolina.

Last summer I was 'Concierge' at the Mount Mitchell State Park restaurant. On thursday nights we would cook the BBQ for the weekend. Once the aroma got into the air, we would have bears standing at the back door. This is no joke. We would have from 1-5 bears around the building. We got special permission to have a Ruger .45 LC in the safe. We had the first load just the CCI Shot Shell, the other 5 were silvertips. Thank the Good Lord, we never had to use it.

One night a bear stuck his arm into the window, pulled some dirty grease towles out of the laundry pail & strowed them around the outside . The bears pooped and smeared it all over the windows. It was so nasty to clean up. Being the 'Concierge', quess who took care of this 'detail'.

Just another tip - do not brush your teeth and spit on the ground around your tent or camping area. They love the mint and sweet smell of tooth paste.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I plan a hike tommorrow in a State Park, and will exercise my rights under this new law. I have a copy of the law, and the press release about it, and will carry those docs with me. I have never been questioned or stopped before about carrying, and don't expect any trouble tommorrow.

Be careful. If the new law says what you said it says, then the new law will not protect you. What you wrote is exactly correct -- if the law directs the DEP to revise the regulations, then the old (existing) regulations remain in full force and effect until the department issues the revision.

 

[SRMohawk]

Gentlemen,
You are all so very gracious. It warms my heart that I should receive so much objective, non-judgemental, even supportive feedback from a bunch of strangers on such a controversial and ultimately downright illegal practice. The fact of the matter is that both my best friend and I have not made this little excursion previously because both of us have just been too anxious about the prospect of being terribly injured or even killed by a bear or a man while undertaking it. And it hasn't helped that the incidence of people simply vanishing along the longer, more isolated stretches of the CDT (e.g. such as the 122-mile stretch of it that runs through the Bob Marshall Wilderness) is increasing in recent years. Nonetheless, I have an intense love of the Great White North and the Rocky Mountains and I have longed to hike the CDT from Waterton, Alberta to the Tetons in Wyoming for years now. But the opportunity is waning. Soon my financial and familial commitments will preclude my being able to do it ever. For only another 2-3 years will I have both the time and resources to make this expedition. Wish me luck, boys!

SRM

 

[hobbeeman]

I think that there is another loophole that you could exploit. I believe that it is legal to carry when you have your concealed carry license, even in federal parks.

 

[roscoe]

Hell, just go for it. Concealed means concealed.

 

[Bwana John]

I have transported firearms on horses and backpacking thru Grand Teton National Park and Devils Postpile National Monument, both working for outfitters and privately. I have had National Park Rangers validate my deer tags at the Ranger Station after transporting the animals through the National Monument (after taking animals legally in Inyo and Sierra National Forests).
Posession of firearms is NOT totally illegal in the National Parks. How you use them might be.