Case Lube On Handgun Brass

[Toprudder]

OK, how about some myth busting.

Does anyone have a force gauge/measuring equipment to measure the difference in resizing force between unlubed and lubed 9mm cases using Lee carbide resizing die and Lee progressive press (PM sent to OP to ask whether press in question is Pro 1000 vs Load Master).

I would do the testing but lack the proper equipment to do the measuring. And to ensure consistency, verified once-fired brass from the same factory box would need to be used.

Since I made the claim residual polymer on brass surface from tumbling with NuFinish polish decreased the amount of resizing force, it would be nice to add NuFinish tumbled brass in addition to bare and lubed cases.

Anyone up for this challenge?

I am curious what the actual numbers would be.

I've been thinking about trying exactly what you suggest. What got me thinking about it was that just last night I resized and primed a bunch of brass, some of it was brass that I had wet tumbled with Armor All Wash-n-wax, the rest was wet tumbled with Dawn. I could definitely tell a difference. I was thinking of a way to measure, I may just try to use a spring fish scale.

 

[Gravedigger56]

I've been thinking about trying exactly what you suggest. What got me thinking about it was that just last night I resized and primed a bunch of brass, some of it was brass that I had wet tumbled with Armor All Wash-n-wax, the rest was wet tumbled with Dawn. I could definitely tell a difference. I was thinking of a way to measure, I may just try to use a spring fish scale.

I agree. The more I use Wash-n-Wax the better I like it.

Dawn... what's Dawn?

 

[Berserker]

I never worried about media in the flash hole. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems to me that if a primer by itself has enough energy to push a bullet into the barrel, it should have enough energy to push a tiny piece of corn cob out of the flash hole.

Now if you are talking about SS pins and wet tumbling, yeah, that could be a problem. I inspect all cases at some point anyway, before they go on the press.

I just started loading bottle neck, and I bought tumbler recently too. Some people say why bother tubling, but it does seem so easy, why not. I can see high volume shooters not doing it. I like to load a bunch up and be set for awhile.


The one thing I don't like about loading rifle, is the lubing, and more so wing them off. I may try tumbling again. I too hand prime.

I agree and don't agree about the primer blowing the media out of the way. It is about ignition. Some loads have magnum and some standard. Handguns, for the most of it,not a big deal if one is off for normal plinking. But rifle, a little different, you are trying to improve accuracy more. BUt again, I guess if one is off, not end of world. Pay more attention to hunting loads.

I am going to try tumbling my rifle brass, just to get the lube off.

 

[LiveLife]

Dawn... what's Dawn?

It's dish soap - http://www.dawn-dish.com/us/dawn/product

 

[Gravedigger56]

It's dish soap

LMAO. Got me!

 

[vaalpens]

I always thought there is no need for lube using carbide dies, but this thread made me think about it again and I found this is the Lee Modern Reloading book:

Carbide dies usually eliminate the need to lubricate the cases. There are exceptions.

It then lists a few exceptions like excessively clean brass etc, and the following:

Tapered cases such as the 9mm and 30 M1 Carbine need some lube.

I have not used lube for 9mm, but I do find 9mm is harder to resize than my 40S&W brass even though I use carbide dies for both.

 

[GLOOB]

A little lube certainly makes it easier and faster to do 9mm.

Also, with new cases, I find I need a little lube INSIDE of the case necks to prevent galling of brass on the expander.

Does anyone have a force gauge/measuring equipment to measure the difference in resizing force between unlubed and lubed 9mm cases using Lee carbide resizing die and Lee progressive press (PM sent to OP to ask whether press in question is Pro 1000 vs Load Master).

Well, I don't have a force gauge, and I use a SS press. But I have sized plenty of Nu Finish tumbled 9mm and lubed 9mm with Lee dies.

In my experience on a SS, Nu Finish tumbled 9mm is still harder to size than (lubed) 223. And lubed 9mm is easier to size than 40/45. Without the lube, the 9mm isn't exactly HARD to size, but the lever only moves so fast. Kind of like swimming through mud. It slows things down. With the lube, the lever just flies.

For those worried about media in the flash hole, or lube in the media, there are easy ways to remove case lube. You can rub them on a rag with some alcohol on it, like a reverse lube pad. You can make a "diaper" out of a large towel soaked in alcohol, and toss the cases around in it. I like to put a couple paper towels in the bottom of a cake pan, douse with alcohol, then put in a layer of cases and rock the tray around to make the cases roll back n forth for a few seconds.

 

[Toprudder]

Also, with new cases, I find I need a little lube INSIDE of the case necks to prevent galling of brass on the expander.

I've had that problem with brass that was wet tumbled with Dawn/Lemishine. Since I have switched to Armorall Wash-n-Wax, I don't have the problem. And I never had the problem when I dry tumbled using polish like NuFinish.

 

[billybob44]

Save your $ and your One Shot...

Been reloading handgun ammo for some time now. I use Lee Carbide dies. Since converting over to a progressive press about a year ago I have found that the force required to pull the lever is a lot. Most of the energy is coming from the sizing station. I have never used sizing lube because I only reload handgun cases and I use carbide dies. I read somewhere that if I use sizing lube it would significantly reduce the required effort. I tried it and sure enough it did help out a lot.

My question is this, what is the easiest way to apply case lube? I didn't want to use a pad so I just bought a can of Hornady One Shot to experiment with. I keep my clean brass in gallon zip lock bags. Is it ok to just spray some One Shot into the gallon bag each time I add brass to the bag and shake the bag around or should the case lube be applied right before reloading the brass?

I load all of my handgun loads on a Dillon RL550 with Dillon Dies. I spray all brass with a homemade mix of 1 part hand lotion to 9 parts 90+% rubbing alcohol.
I place a layer of brass in a $1.00 "School pencil box", spray, add another layer, shake well + let set a few minutes while I am getting other things ready.
This cheap lube makes ALL of the difference in my Carbide Dillon dies...Bill.

 

[1KPerDay]

Few hundred cases in a plastic bucket or gallon can, spray a little hornady one-shot (I use imperial for rifle resizing), shake bucket, load.

Works great. I lube all handgun brass for LCT this way. Yes I use carbide dies.

 

[Zendude]

The stickiest brass seem to be the taller ones - 32 H&R, 38 Special, etc. One Shot helps a little but not that much. It's rather watery and dries too quickly. I've had the best results using brass fresh out of the tumbler with NuFinish mixed in with the tumbling media. Still looking for a better alternative.

 

[Berserker]

You don't need lube with carbides, but it a little bit can make it easier. I think that point is getting lost. I tend to do it more with larger calibers. Not every case.

 

[Zendude]

Is there something wrong with the sizing die if the brass sticks too much?

 

[Berserker]

I just hand primed 127 30-06s that were tumbled before sizing de-priming. Abut 25 had some media in the flash hole. About half were big chunk. My hunting rounds I will clean the flash holes to make sure I don't miss anything. This time I just visually checked.

Maybe tumbling after priming would have knocked it loose. Maybe de-priming wedged the media in the hole.

 

[ADKWOODSMAN]

I use a liberal amount imperial sizing wax on my first pistol case to be run through a carbide die. Wipe the case and run 50 or so before doing another case. Works for me.

 

[LiveLife]

I use a liberal amount imperial sizing wax on my first pistol case to be run through a carbide die. Wipe the case and run 50 or so before doing another case. Works for me.

Now, THIS I agree with.

 

[TexasDon]

The way I clean my brass is with a vibrating cleaner & walnut shell media plus Nu-Car finish and a splash of mineral spirits.
This actually adds a thin layer of wax that helps the brass when sizing.
Along with carbide dies, this is an easy task.

I do use lube on rifle brass though.

Just my 2¢

TxD

 

[jcwit]

I just hand primed 127 30-06s that were tumbled before sizing de-priming. Abut 25 had some media in the flash hole. About half were big chunk. My hunting rounds I will clean the flash holes to make sure I don't miss anything. This time I just visually checked.

Maybe tumbling after priming would have knocked it loose. Maybe de-priming wedged the media in the hole.

Use the right size of tumbling media and you won't have that problem. 20/40 grit.

 

[Berserker]

I just used the Lyman green stuff, treated corn media. There wasn't options at store. Obviously I can order something else.

I was also surpised how dirty my hands got handling the brass.

 

[Ex]

I applied and light coat of "New Finish" to my dies, Of coarse I apply/remove off with said Q-Tip.
Eliminated the need for any lube on brass. Of course, I have taken to a cap full of NuFinsih to every other batch of tumbled brass. I'm sure that helps!!

 

[jcwit]

And obviously the Lyman stuff is to large, thats why it gets stuck in the flash hole.

 

[LiveLife]

I just used the Lyman green stuff, treated corn media. There wasn't options at store. Obviously I can order something else.

And obviously the Lyman stuff is to large, thats why it gets stuck in the flash hole.

Fine grit (20/40) media do not plug the flash hole like coarse grit (12/14) media - http://www.kramerindustriesonline.com/tumbling-media/walnut-shells.htm

I used coarse grit walnut media before (which worked well to clean the brass) but when I switched to fine grit walnut media (like Harbor Freight 24 grit walnut media - $25/25 lbs), I noticed faster cleaning action with better polish on the brass and none of the media stuck in the flash hole due to smaller media size.

BTW, Zoro Tools (owned by Grainger) sells 40 lbs of 20/40 corn cob media for $29 with free shipping on $50+ orders - http://www.zoro.com/i/G2165387/

Powder Valley sells 40 lbs of corn cob for $19 but don't list the grit size (go to Maintenance > PVI) - http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

I was also surpised how dirty my hands got handling the brass.

Walnut blasting media sold by Harbor Freight must be washed as I do not get any dust while tumbling. Also, using brass polish like NuFinish not only applies better shine but the residual polymer on brass surface keeps the cases cleaner and prevents brass tarnish for months/years. Using cut up used dryer sheet/paper towel helps transfer dirt/grime from media.

 

[Berserker]

I will try the dryer sheets. I don't use them, so need to get some used ones.

The black on my hands isn't a big deal, but I do prime in my recliner, so I would like to be able to touch stuff.

 

[Hangingrock]

If I had to lube 9mm-Luger or 45ACP cartridge cases as an example I'd quit reloading.

 

[crankyoldlady]

I will try the dryer sheets. I don't use them, so need to get some used ones.

The black on my hands isn't a big deal, but I do prime in my recliner, so I would like to be able to touch stuff.

Paper towel will do just as well. Cut one in half, then separate the two thin pieces of paper. Done.