cast bullet defense loads?

[JeepGeeek]

Folks- first of all, if you can't leave the debate about carrying handloads out of this, please don't comment. That horse has been beat to death, and that is a personal decision each of us has to make.

Assuming one were to carry cast bullets for 9mm, 40, or 45, what are some bullet hardnesses, molds, and designs one would look for?

I would like a hollowpoint mold, but can't seem to find one. Then, I'm not sure how the hard WW alloy would perform as a hollowpoint. I assume since there are solid copper HP's out there, it would do ok.

I know that for ultimate surety in this I should do my own testing. That's impossible, I don't have access to the facilities to do it. So I'm going to have to rely on folks that have already done this.

 

[Griz44]

I know several shooters who drill out a RPFN. That makes a very effective hollow point from a softer lead bullet. A harder alloy would have a tendancy to fracture, a softer alloy will spread.

 

[Galil5.56]

Google Lyman devastator for information concerning cast HP's. Here is a nice link to start:

http://www.lasc.us/LymanDevastator.htm

Hard cast RN/FP would be a terrible choice because of severe over penetration IMO.

 

[JeepGeeek]

so would you guys just use pure lead, then?

 

[zxcvbob]

I buy 158 grain swaged HP bullets for my HD loads. But a heavy bullet cast from pure lead should be almost as devastating.

I shoot .45 Colt loads cast from scrounged range lead. It's pretty soft. When I hit a steel plate with a lightly-loaded .45 loads (like my homemade BP, which isn't very good powder) the bullets splatter into a heavy 2-inch daisy. I pick 'em up afterwards and melt them down again. I imagine they'd do the same thing if loaded a little hotter when they hit a bone.

 

[JeepGeeek]

unfortunately the 40-cal Lyman devastator is no longer made.

To the gent that said he drill sout his RNFP bullets: please post a pic of the jig you use?

 

[PotatoJudge]

Here's a thread over at castboolits discussing the use of cast HP bulelts:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=33222

Pretty interesting stuff.

 

[Griz44]

I used a drill chuck from a scrounged electric drill mounted with a screw and washer in the bottom hole of my 39.00 harbor freight bench top drill press and used a 3/16" steel bit to drill them. The drill press has a stop adjustment on it to set maximum travel. And please do not call me a gentleman, I have an image to maintain!
I'll try and find the parts and put it back together to take some pics. I did a couple hundred of them, so I have not set it back lately.

 

[JeepGeeek]

believe I have it pictured. Thanks for the idea. I was hoping to avoid purchasing a full-on drillpress even though I could use one. Wonder if my Dremel will work?

 

[xsquidgator]

How about just plain old 230LRNs for 45ACP?

I chrony'd some Winchester White Box 230JHP defensive rounds at about 850 fps once. Wouldn't 230LRNs going say 875 fps (about 5.5 grains of W231 under 230LRN) be pretty effective too?

Even 9mm 125LRNs going about 1050 to 1100 fps wouldn't be too bad either, I would think.

I don't use lead reloads for defensive use, but if the regular defensive HPs weren't available I think you could make do with lead boolits.

 

[Floppy_D]

I imagine they'd put a hole in a person. Some bullets may perform better or worse than others, but all are capable of lethal force.

Do you have access to somewhere where you can soak a stack of old newspaper and shoot at it? What about wet sand? If you could do a side-by-side of a cast bullet and a JHP in a similar medium, you could get a feel for it, even if the medium were not identical to ballistic gelatin.

I honestly think your only worry is overpenetration.

 

[Griz44]

I used a barrel of water to shoot a couple of black talons to see what they would do. Works pretty good....

 

[fecmech]

I would like a hollowpoint mold, but can't seem to find one. Then, I'm not sure how the hard WW alloy would perform as a hollowpoint.

I tried some HP's made from straight wheel wt metal in my .38 and .357. I shot water filled jugs as the test medium for expansion. The .38's running approx 850fps did not expand at all, When run at 1300fps out of the mag the HP fragmented blowing the nose off the bullet and the base of the slug exited the jugs. I would recommend using lead/tin mixes of 30/1 for cast hollow points out of handguns. The antimony lead mix in WW's makes a brittle bullet that IMO is not ductile enough for HP's.
That said having shot a fair amount of small game in the past with both cast HP's and JHP's my SD guns all have JHP's in them for serious use.

 

[JeepGeeek]

thank you all for the info. Good to have a place I can come to ask more experienced folks.

 

[freakshow10mm]

I cast most bullets with a BH of 12-14 and this covers defense, hunting, and target practice. I've carried lead before, only my 45-230-TC's loaded with 7gr HS6. BHN is 12.

 

[Snapping Twig]

I cast with wheel weights. I used to add linotype, but no longer.

The largest metplat available for the bullet you shoot is IMO an important feature.

I have a 230g TC for my acp and truth be told, all my other moulds up to .454 Casull.

If it's good for hunting, it should translate into SD work. Using a good Keith, TC or SWC would give me all the confidence in the world.

 

[JeepGeeek]

what is a TC?

 

[zxcvbob]

TC = truncated cone. It's sort of like a semi-wadcutter, but without the ridged step.

 

[bluetopper]

I have heard if you turn around backwards a 38, 148gr hollow based wadcutter, it makes quite a vicious hunk of lead.

 

[freakshow10mm]

This is the TC:

 

[Bitswap]

For my home defense loads I useed to use pure lead and a 300 grain mold. Then I drill the tip with a drill bit to get it to 250 grains. After that I put a cross cut using a blade at right angles to help it fracture a little. This is for a 45 colt.

I used to do glazier rounds but don't anymore.

From what I've seen, a wadcutter will do more damage than a HP since it will hit something, tumble and bounce around. That's what I've been loading lately.

Chances are, being calm, taking aim and practicing will do more to defeat your opponent than anything else. If equally matched, he who practiced more will win. Irregardless if your using hollow points or wadcutters, either will ruin your day and achieve your objective.

 

[CBS220]

The 230 TC from Lee is the best shooting bullet I have in my .45s.

I would rather not carry it, though, if I had alternatives.

However, we managed to kill each other just fine before this newfangled metal-patching stuff. If you are confident in your loads, then go for it.

Keep in mind that water tends to show the maximum upset of any one bullet... and these results will tend to be pretty consistent, as well. Note exactly like the real world, where bones and different tissues get in the way...

 

[JeepGeeek]

From what I've seen, a wadcutter will do more damage than a HP since it will hit something, tumble and bounce around. That's what I've been loading lately.

Same apply to SWC bullets mentioned in the link above?

 

[Bitswap]

Same apply to SWC bullets mentioned in the link above?

Sure.

My point is that it really doesn't matter. Shot placement is much more important than what your shooting. In any case if you hit someone with anything it will be enough... even if it's a 22 long rifle. It depends on if your aiming for the 'T' or a center of mass shot. If center of mass, then 45 is the way to go. The key is just enough velociety to do damage, but not exit. A lot less to clean up that way.

For home defense, I wouldn't pick up my 45 cal unless its the only thing around. I pick up my 12 guage with 00 buck. Now your talking some serious damage. Nine 32 caliber projectiles that hit in a fist-sized area at 10 yards and will do MUCH more damage than a 45.

When I'm in the field in bear country, I bring my 45s with wadcutters. I know they will drop anything that decides to charge me if I'm aware of it. But it's a magum load that the blackhawk can handle.

There's no need to over-engineer this. A basic 45 colt will drop a mule deer and that's with a lead RNFP. I recommend getting a cast mold, load it with pure lead and learning the drop chart. Try to put three rounds in three inches at 25 yards off hand. Then go to 50 yards... and so on. Your three inch group will be your maximum range.

 

[bullseye308]

Any semi wad cutter will work just fine for defence, makes nice clean holes for the CSI guys to play with. Close to pure lead would be nice with a moderate velocity should do the trick. Nothing matters if placement is not king, RN, HP, TC, FMJ matter not if you don't place it right. Whatever you can shoot accurately is what you carry. The most super duper awesome new fangled bullet is worthless if your gun doesn't shoot it right. It aint the noise that kills them.