cast bullet question

[edwin41]

hi
ive got a question about a cast bullet from the lyman compagnie.
its the 170 gr semi wad cutter "elmer keith style ".
im kind of wondering about the top groove , is it a crimp groove or am i wrong and is it a grease groove ?
if its a grease groove , where do i crimp the bullet then?
am i greasing it correct this way?
your input is much appreciated !

 

[edwin41]

trying to get the foto back in...

 

[rcmodel]

Top groove is the crimp groove.

You are greasing it correctly.

It doesn't appear you are sizing it correctly however.

You need to adjust the sizer/luber so you size the front driving band in front of the groove too.
(all of the driving bands need to be sized)

rc

 

[edwin41]

thanks rc , i also noticed the upper driving band.
the bullets came out of the mouldblock kinda small , ive noticed it also with the wadcutters i cast .
they both seem to come out at a fraction below .358...
if i size them to .357 the upper band is sized correctly.
so , its not that the bullet didn t go all the way through the sizer , my thinking it will be okay this way though.
you have an sharp eye for these things , your replys are always much appreciated !
it seems to me you got a lot of experience in reloading , don t you ?

 

[rcmodel]

the bullets came out of the mouldblock kinda small

Turn up the heat a little and they will fill better..

Adding a little tin couldn't hurt either.

rc

 

[edwin41]

got the lyman casting furness on the highest setting.
i cast my bullets with lead and tin alloy.
i dont know if you got the same in the states , but my source of tin comes from the local plummer , these are bars of solder used to solder zinc gudders etc.
the alloy of these bars are 60 % lead and 40% tin , i think theres a little antimony in it too , but that varies from maker to maker.
my method of calculating the amounts are the weight of the lead ingot moulds
devide it by 40 and then multiply it by 3.
the outcome will be the weight of solder i add .
would this be to little ?

greetings from holland , where just a little snow is falling now ...

 

[rcmodel]

I don't know about the math?

Maybe you need a little antimony to help with the shrinkage.

Here is some good info on some of that if you want to sort through it.
http://www.lasc.us/castbulletnotes.htm

rc

 

[earplug]

Kieth bullet

Memory tells me that Kieth designed the leading edge of the bullet to be slightly under size to ride the lands. May have been a attempt to reduce pressure?
Might have read this in one of Kieth's or Skeeter Skelton's articles.
I use the same bullet and mold for my 38 spl. carry gun. Now I have to go measure the bullets top and bottom.
No need to size them if its .357 or .358.

 

[edwin41]

that could be the answer earplug...
i do measure a slight difference on the upper and lower drivingbands.
thanks !

 

[rcmodel]

Earplug is exactly right, and I was exactly wrong!
Looks like I had a senior moment there!

I just went down and measured some "as cast" Lyman 429421's and the front driving band is smaller.

Mine drop out of the mold using wheel weight alloy:
Driving bands = .431".
Front band = .423".

After sizing & lube there is no trace of sizing marks on the front band, just like yours.


Keith's reasoning was the front band would enter the chamber throats and center the bullet in the chamber.

A full dia front band with a properly sized or under-sized chamber throat would not just drop in without a little help.
And some pushing, kicking, and screaming.

My bad!!!

rc

 

[edwin41]

hmm.. this bullet is getting better and better i believe.
thanks for sharing the info !

 

[earplug]

What is your revolver ?

A little off subject, i'm curious what type of revolver your using.
And what is your intended use for the Kieth 170 grain SWC?

 

[hang fire]

If shooting the Lyman 358-429 boolit in long cylinders, I crimp in the groove. In short cylinders like the Python, I lube the groove and crimp on the front band leading edge.

Also IIRC, the original Kieth version had a full diameter front driving band.

 

[PapaG]

My philosophy on grooves is simple: if there is a groove, fill it with lube. Crimp over the lube. You can hardly have too much. For my really soft hollowpoints in the 44 special I lube the bullets while sizing and then tumble in Lee's Alox formula. (for those dead soft bullets, I use an oversize expander ball so the bullet doesn't get all the lube shaved off the outside an then roll crimp. Gotta be careful and it took me a few tries to get the expander ball to the right size so as not to have the loaded cartridge too big for the chamber. The flaring portion was untouched and the original ball was from a acp die. (mould 429421 hp)

 

[edwin41]

well earplug , this cartridge is for my rolling block carbine , so overall lenght
is not an issue , as it is an singleshot rifle.
my searching is for a reload that a little step up from . 38 spec.
the intended use is a 100 + yards target load , no hunting no defence.

rcmodel , the alloy of lead / tin would be some one 34 parts lead to 1 part tin.
kind of a soft bullet , wich ranges in some 8.5 to 9 bhn , according to the lyman
49 th edition reloading handbook.

 

[earplug]

Nice Rolling Block

I'm guessing your will enjoy that bullet and rifle combination.
A powder with a burn rate like Unique should work fine.
I made a single shot carbine 44 MAG and it was a fun gun with moderate loads.