Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by caracalproblem, Feb 14, 2013.
Very hard to argue with that.
Yes, I got to shot one at the 2012 SHOT Show...they've been making guns since 2003... and interviewed the designer. You can the article here on Shooting Reviews
They are really nice guns and offer several improvements over his previous designs...Glock, FN...and they even have a USPSA team which includes JJ Racaza
I have one and will trust it until a case report becomes a more experienced phenomenon. A case report is only one step above rumor in the level of evidence. And the fact that this one incident has gone 'round the world only shows the efficiency of the Internet.
Well, other than the fact that the firearm doesn't demonstrate any of the tell tale characteristics of a firearm destroyed by ammunition issues.
The thread is making the rounds. One reason for the interest is that the guns have been receiving good reviews. They have developed in a few years a good reputation.
A catastrophic failure to a slide generates interest. The pic on page 6 of the original thread shows a clean break. No damage to the breech face.
I wish they had shown a picture of the underside of the slide.
The pics that begin this thread look more like the gun has been run over by a truck than a failure due to ammo.
OP sure has a flair for the dramatic.
I held one, not shot one yet, and to me the ergos feel AWESOME. If they made a lefty or ambi model, I would have already bought one. There are a couple things I don't like, but nothing that couldn't be corrected relatively easily from what I could see.
Actually the one I held was being worked over by a local smith for competition. He had milled the slide to accept a real rear sight, among other things, but made the comment that the steel was the hardest he'd ever worked with on any gun. I don't know how or if that would figure into performance during a KB.
So the way it's written, this just didn't happen. The OP has one post here.
The pics on the linked site look like lousy metallurgy, but hard to tell.
I don't fire Chinese ammo.
Hard steel is often brittle. Soft steel bends, hard steel breaks.
Tough steel, or tough alloy with a high enough tensile strength is what you need, not a super hard steel in a slide. I missed that comment, but backs my guess on poor metallurgy.
Could be a quality control issue with heat treating processes (e.g. 1903 springfield).
Or, a steel mill with bad quality control.
If the design is solid (architecturally) but the metal is failing, that'd be where I'd point the initial blame.
However, this is all still anecdotal, until there's a pattern, or laboratory testing, no real conclusions can be formed.
Somehow I smell a rat here. There are lots of cover words, lots of claims, lots of this lotsa that, but He cannot figure out how to correctly put the magazine in the gun to display the KABOOM results......Hmmmmmmm......in over five decades of shooting, having worked for two different ammunition companies, and having blown guns skyhigh in testing I have NEVER seen one quite like this.
Hang out long enough on the internet and you will see every single type of handgun kaboom'd...
Interesting sure. Enough to persuade me from buying one if I were in the market?? No
Agree on the definition of a trend and we will go from there.
Although I've never experienced a cat failure, I have always taken certain safety steps in the event it should ever happen, proper eye protection is a must! Even decent shooting gloves are my preference in this respect, I like having 5 digits and each hand.
And if it was the result of factory ammo it only reinforces my reasoning in personally loading all the ammo I shoot. I've experienced some very unusual, and sometimes ill performing factory early on in my shooting days, including mis-fires, and a box of shotshells that were separating at the base, and stuff that wouldn't even chamber. And I actually started the reloading process based almost solely on those experiences.
But I am glad to hear he has fully recovered and I hope nothing like should ever happen to anyone. It could easily drive them away from the enjoyment of the shooting sports.
Right, wrong or indifferent if this type post was made on a computer forum (or in the comments on a computer oriented blog) with no substantiating documentation, only personal say-so, it would be tagged as spreading "FUD": Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
For all I know the OP may be a truly upstanding member of the Pakistani shooting community, but he could also be an anti gun troll.
From the OP's handle..... and the fact that he has made only one post??? Seems like a big question mark in my mind?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I'm not sure as to his what his intentions are, but it sure seems suspect to me! Just sayin' The slide almost looks DE-Milled to me. Further I have to agree with RC Model, I work on machines for a living. Every time a new type comes out I urge my coutomers to let "the other guy" do the Beta testing!
Safety glasses cost a dollar. Maybe start some new threads across the intermets with the username "Safetyglassescostadollar". knock on wood
It's not only his first post it's his only post.
From the admittedly poor quality photos, I see no evidence of anything having "blown up".
Looks like the slide simply broke into two pieces, as the early Beretta 92 military models sometimes did -- their "solution" after beefing up the side and QA/QC a bit, was to add a stud to the frame to keep the broken half from flying backwards.
Yes, quite suspect. Probably just trying to drum up the biz for the/his linked site.
The reason I didn't close this thread at first blush, was because I thought it might bring up some informative discussion. If this devolves into circling the wagons and denial, there isn't much sense in it staying open
Why do you think it is suspect? You realize that not only is he in a different time zone but in another country? I don't think anyone here can describe a day in the OP's life.
As for drumming up business to a gun forum in Pakistan, I don't think the OP would pick THR. No offense meant but, did anyone here know that you could even legally own a handgun in Pakistan? When it comes to guns, Americans are pretty isolated and liner in our perceptions of gun ownership in the rest of the world.
As to the pictures on the Pak site, it's pretty clear to me that its the metal and not the ammo. Have none of you seen a mount or bolt or rod break clean like that? I may have never witnessed a slide break like that but I have seen plenty of other industrial metals do that. It's usually the result of fatigue either from adverse environmental exposure or age or maxing out the tinsel strength or impurities in the metal.
Anyway, not trying to sound like some metallurgist because I'm not but I have some life experience and that break looks like some I have seen close up with other metal applications.
If it turns out to be a hoax then oh well. At least give the op the benefit of the doubt until we know more.
The pictures of the slide in the link show a break. The slide was not cut in half or sawed, or milled. It broke. Why, we don't know. Folks can guess all they like. Perhaps bad heat treat of the slide.
There was no Ka-Boom.
There is no evidence that the op is a troll.
Still, better and clear pics of the gun from various angles would have helped.
Interestingly, the barrel seems intact and undamaged. The only damage I see is the broken slide.
Overpressured round? I don't think I'd hang my hat on that.
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