Caution to fellow “brass rats”…

JmacD

Micah 6:8
Joined
Sep 9, 2021
Messages
1,415
Location
Nebraska
I don’t know if this is the correct place to post this, and if it needs to go somewhere else, so be it. It doesn’t belong at all, so be it. I found this to be quite the story; as a rather dedicated, brass rat, it just serves to let you know how careful you need to be. That said, I can’t see this happening at most of the ranges I frequent.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/arizona-...man-collecting-brass-casings-gun-range-police

Edit: I realize (as was pointed out) there are some odd things about the timing and what and where are not peculiar to a range. BUT, it is a thought provoking “what if it was me” scenario in my mind.
 
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I would think Gun clubs and Range “clubs” that require memberships would be some of the safest places to be. Lots of LEOs, X-LEOS, Vets, average citizens with CC licenses, etc. But I’m not oblivious of my surroundings. I watch everyone close anywhere I go, including at the shooting range I shoot at.

I’ll admit that sometimes I get an uneasy feeling while posting targets or picking up brass while surrounded by berms on all sides except one. Technically we are sitting ducks with no cover and no way out if someone wanted to do harm. Luckily the shooting community is more law abiding and stable than the population as a whole. (my opinion, no study to reference)

In the OP, it was non member scum bags committing crimes. Not targeted due to specifically being at a range. Either way, I always have a holstered gun while at the range picking up brass. But of course I have a holstered gun on me all of the time anywhere I go that it’s legal.
 
The time of the shooting begs the question was he also mining lead out of the berms and he was just at the wrong place and the wrong time? Still no reason to be murdered though and why was the 16 year old released to his parents after being involved in a murder ??
 
Being in the wrong place at the wrong time often results in tragedy and sometimes in reward. I just cannot imagine my being out a 4:40 AM collecting brass. Wouldn’t be easier and safer in early daylight?
I know a few guys that go “after hours” just to get brass when the range isn’t active. I’m assuming that’s what he was doing. Or maybe he was a fellow insomniac :) Another thought I had was he possibly worked 3rd shift, and so he was preparing for what was his “evening” reloading session?

I would think Gun clubs and Range “clubs” that require memberships would be some of the safest places to be. Lots of LEOs, X-LEOS, Vets, average citizens with CC licenses, etc. But I’m not oblivious of my surroundings. I watch everyone close anywhere I go, including at the shooting range I shoot at.

I’ll admit that sometimes I get an uneasy feeling while posting targets or picking up brass while surrounded by berms on all sides except one. Technically we are sitting ducks with no cover and no way out if someone wanted to do harm. Luckily the shooting community is more law abiding and stable than the population as a whole. (my opinion, no study to reference)

In the OP, it was non member scum bags committing crimes. Not targeted due to specifically being at a range. Either way, I always have a holstered gun while at the range picking up brass. But of course I have a holstered gun on me all of the time anywhere I go that it’s legal.
DITTO! DITTO!! And DITTO!!!

The time of the shooting begs the question was he also mining lead out of the berms and he was just at the wrong place and the wrong time? Still no reason to be murdered though and why was the 16 year old released to his parents after being involved in a murder ??
exactly some of my questions.
 
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After reading the article, it seems that why the victim was in the area is irrelevant to the situation.

He confronted 3 people that had burgled his vehicle, and ended up dead.

^^^....This. Really nuttin' about the collecting of brass that led directly to his demise.

Very true. Still makes you think.

Folks need to think everytime they go out of their home. They need to think when they are in their home. There are people like the two killers everywhere and that have very little respect for human life. Wonder just what it was that they stole from the victims car that was worth his life? Maybe a half bucket of brass?

While a very sad and tragic event, I see no reason that those of us that pick up brass left by others at gun ranges, need to be any more aware then at other times, unless we are trespassing or breaking rules. Sometimes, situational awareness and other precautions are just not enough. I see the death of the victim as no fault of his own.
 
Being in the wrong place at the wrong time often results in tragedy and sometimes in reward. I just cannot imagine my being out a 4:40 AM collecting brass. Wouldn’t be easier and safer in early daylight?

Maybe that's when he got off work. I used to collect brass at the range at 7AM, when I got off work. It is a gated range, but I still had my carry gun with me.
 
Well, as a guy who was there...literally. We came down to set up on the police range right next to the civilians range for a 4 H Shooting Sports match. Here is what it looks like. The road coming in from top left is now paved to the range entrance, and across that road is now the RC airfield.
45jlweM.jpg
Arica road was blocked off at Trekell by two PCSO vehicles and I could see a bunch more at the range - it's flat desert from Trekell Road to both ranges. I was there at approximately 05:25, (WAY early, but I tend to do that), and called the other 4H'ers to see if we wanted to cancel or reschedule. Ultimately the private trap and skeet club, (can't see on that picture, but just out of view on the top of the photo), allowed us to use two bays for the kids. The cops had them blocked in as well and a chopper in the air until about 6:30, or so - we were waiting on the side of the road in the shantytown, as we couldn't call all the parents and let them know we had moved. When PCSO, (Pinal County Sheriffs Office), moved back the merely blocked the entrance to Isom Road at the trap and skeet club so residents could get in and out. By that time the helo had left.
First thing - it was DARK. Nobody brass rats that time of night - they show up right at the end of the day, (City locks the gate at sundown), and by that time the lanes are pretty much picked over. Only thing left is 22lr and a BUNCH of rusting steel.
Second, while range rules state nobody is to be scavenging brass, it is universally ignored, as there is NO monitoring on the range - it's all on the honor system. I can also say I have had my run ins with brass rats grabbing my brass AS IT FALLS, which lead to interesting conversations, since I AM a reloader, but 99% of the brass rats are very deferential and will ask if you reload or save your brass before they jump in. So there was no reason for this guy to be out there at that time of night. As for berm mining, completely impractical - the range is locked shut at the entrance, so the shortest distance he could walk with a full load of mined lead in the dark over dirt would be over 100 yards. The likelihood is astronomically low.
Third, this range is free and open to the public, city maintained and controlled...and honestly, they do a pretty good job. I have been shooting there about 20 years and have yet to see an accident. However, I also keep an eye on my fellow shooters and when someone sketchy walks up, I pack and scoot. I live about 10 minutes from there, so no big deal, I can always come back later.
So, to finish - there's a LOT that is sketchy with the story, including that the residents of the trap and skeet club, (it's also a RV park, hence the private nature), stated they heard a gun battle at the time of death indicated, not just a few execution shots. I have only seen one armed brass rat, (High Point in an Uncle Mikes rig, but functional), so again, some things don't add up. FAR more likely a drug deal gone bad, as the drug smuggling route ceded to the Cartels from Obummer is only a few miles west of this location.
 
“The murder weapon was in the desert near the crime scene with the help of Casa Grande Police Department K9 member Blitz.”
So, the police dog helped the perpetrators hide the weapon? Apparently writing (and editing) are a lost art these days. Or is this a sign that people don’t even read anymore?
This was a tragic event and fair warning, but what passes for reporting these days drives this boomer crazy…
 
Look up the "Redlands WMA" in Georgia... Several guys were bushwaked at the range there many years ago... While camping off to the side... Very "rural" location... Been there many times many years ago myself... They knew the campers would have guns (they were camping next to a rang) and they still attacked them...
 
I recover used brass from a high fenced private gun club with an electronic lock on the gate so to get in they would have to have a pass card. Even the public ranges around here are high fenced & locked during non shooting hours.
It sounds to me he was in a out of the way place early in the morning & wasn't carrying a firearm to protect himself.
Be careful where & how you park when attending your gun range & if you can, carry anytime you are out of your vehicle even if you don't intend to shoot your firearm.
Only park in well lighted areas. For some reason criminals don't like bright lights. LOL
 
Well, as a guy who was there...literally. We came down to set up on the police range right next to the civilians range for a 4 H Shooting Sports match. Here is what it looks like. The road coming in from top left is now paved to the range entrance, and across that road is now the RC airfield.
View attachment 1140969
Arica road was blocked off at Trekell by two PCSO vehicles and I could see a bunch more at the range - it's flat desert from Trekell Road to both ranges. I was there at approximately 05:25, (WAY early, but I tend to do that), and called the other 4H'ers to see if we wanted to cancel or reschedule. Ultimately the private trap and skeet club, (can't see on that picture, but just out of view on the top of the photo), allowed us to use two bays for the kids. The cops had them blocked in as well and a chopper in the air until about 6:30, or so - we were waiting on the side of the road in the shantytown, as we couldn't call all the parents and let them know we had moved. When PCSO, (Pinal County Sheriffs Office), moved back the merely blocked the entrance to Isom Road at the trap and skeet club so residents could get in and out. By that time the helo had left.
First thing - it was DARK. Nobody brass rats that time of night - they show up right at the end of the day, (City locks the gate at sundown), and by that time the lanes are pretty much picked over. Only thing left is 22lr and a BUNCH of rusting steel.
Second, while range rules state nobody is to be scavenging brass, it is universally ignored, as there is NO monitoring on the range - it's all on the honor system. I can also say I have had my run ins with brass rats grabbing my brass AS IT FALLS, which lead to interesting conversations, since I AM a reloader, but 99% of the brass rats are very deferential and will ask if you reload or save your brass before they jump in. So there was no reason for this guy to be out there at that time of night. As for berm mining, completely impractical - the range is locked shut at the entrance, so the shortest distance he could walk with a full load of mined lead in the dark over dirt would be over 100 yards. The likelihood is astronomically low.
Third, this range is free and open to the public, city maintained and controlled...and honestly, they do a pretty good job. I have been shooting there about 20 years and have yet to see an accident. However, I also keep an eye on my fellow shooters and when someone sketchy walks up, I pack and scoot. I live about 10 minutes from there, so no big deal, I can always come back later.
So, to finish - there's a LOT that is sketchy with the story, including that the residents of the trap and skeet club, (it's also a RV park, hence the private nature), stated they heard a gun battle at the time of death indicated, not just a few execution shots. I have only seen one armed brass rat, (High Point in an Uncle Mikes rig, but functional), so again, some things don't add up. FAR more likely a drug deal gone bad, as the drug smuggling route ceded to the Cartels from Obummer is only a few miles west of this location.
Good info.
 
I recover used brass from a high fenced private gun club with an electronic lock on the gate so to get in they would have to have a pass card. Even the public ranges around here are high fenced & locked during non shooting hours.
It sounds to me he was in a out of the way place early in the morning & wasn't carrying a firearm to protect himself.
Be careful where & how you park when attending your gun range & if you can, carry anytime you are out of your vehicle even if you don't intend to shoot your firearm.
Only park in well lighted areas. For some reason criminals don't like bright lights. LOL
There are no lights out there. There is no power along that road past the trap and skeet club.
 
I spent 12 of my first 16 years as an LEO working weekend graveyards. At 0400 in the morning, I ran into a LOT of characters out and about.

Some were commuters out early, some repo men looking to grab a car on their list, some were retired guys going for coffee at the coffee shop. But in an area like the one described, most folks out there were tweaked out on meth looking to scrounge up or steal whatever wasn’t welded in place.

Obviously I wasn’t there so all I can do is hazard a guess from experience, but there is not a whole lot that seems very legit on either end of this incident.

Now there is one guy is dead and two young people are probably done for life. Such a waste. :(

Stay safe.
 
I had to leave a public shooting range/area in the national forest here in Colorado.
A group of about 20 people showed up. None were speaking English. Everyone was shooting full auto. Never bothered setting up targets. Were not shooting from dedicated shooting lanes. I had the feeling I might be used for target practice. Packed up and left immediately.
Driving away I couldn't help but wonder if they were shooting brass or steel cased ammo. There was going to be a lot to pick up, but it wasn't going to be me.
 
Being in the wrong place at the wrong time often results in tragedy and sometimes in reward. I just cannot imagine my being out a 4:40 AM collecting brass. Wouldn’t be easier and safer in early daylight?

Collecting brass at night is actually the same or easier than daytime as the brass shines when exposed to a flashlight light in the dark. I know this because I often have to wait till dark to collect brass as that is when everyone is gone for the day and it’s safe to head down range.
 
I had to leave a public shooting range/area in the national forest here in Colorado.
A group of about 20 people showed up. None were speaking English. Everyone was shooting full auto. Never bothered setting up targets. Were not shooting from dedicated shooting lanes. I had the feeling I might be used for target practice. Packed up and left immediately.
Driving away I couldn't help but wonder if they were shooting brass or steel cased ammo. There was going to be a lot to pick up, but it wasn't going to be me.
We had one of those areas at the top of Lytle Creek, just North of San Bernardino. It used to be an open shooting area and you could see hoodlums shooting out of cars practicing drive bys surrounded by piles of bud light cans. I went there twice, once was mid week and it was empty, once on a Friday. After seeing the gangster element out there I said that’s it.

Others I know who went there saw the same stuff and never went back.

The area closed for years until a paid-concessionaire put in a genuine shooting range that’s controlled and organized.

Stay safe.
 
Being in the wrong place at the wrong time often results in tragedy and sometimes in reward. I just cannot imagine my being out a 4:40 AM collecting brass. Wouldn’t be easier and safer in early daylight?
It gets hot early in Arizona
 
We had one of those areas at the top of Lytle Creek, just North of San Bernardino. It used to be an open shooting area and you could see hoodlums shooting out of cars practicing drive bys surrounded by piles of bud light cans. I went there twice, once was mid week and it was empty, once on a Friday. After seeing the gangster element out there I said that’s it.

Others I know who went there saw the same stuff and never went back.

The area closed for years until a paid-concessionaire put in a genuine shooting range that’s controlled and organized.

Stay safe.

Rio', I've been to Lytle Creeh shooting area twice and have not been back. This was 20+ years ago. As you mention, unsafe place to say the least. Now, I venture to the high desert, usually two or three of us, but, we keep an eye on things. Closely. Nowadays, you just don't know.
 
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