CCW, camping & motorcycles

[BCC]

I'm interected in your opinion.

I'm going to be heading west, mainly through States with CCW reciprocity, in 3 weeks. Probably about 6,000+ miles, all on a motorcyle, mostly camping and about half by myself.

The gun (if taken) will be locked in the pannier (bags) while riding and would only be carried or nearby while at a campsite, at night.

I won't be carrying the gun while riding, because in the event of a crash it would likely hurt me and there is always the potential I could lose control of the weapon but mainly I can't see needing it when riding or getting at it fast enough to make a difference.

If i get as far as California, I'll have to keep it locked and unloaded inside my locked side cases.

So with all of this preamble, would should I bother with campsite carrying, traveling alone across the South and West (Al, LA, SC, TX, NM, CA?, NV)?

I'll be mainly camping at State and Federal parks which don't appear to be high crime/predator areas.

I'm a healthy, tall guy. Carry weapon would probably be a 1911 Commander .45

Thanks for any advice.

 

[B yond]

Well, how concerned are you about your personal safety?

Bad things happen everywhere, and there's always someone bigger and tougher than you. If your life is valuable to you, then I think you should be prepared to defend it.

100% your call though. No one can make the decision for you. If you're not comfortable taking a weapon, then don't.

 

[Claude Clay]

it will travel in the bags without a round chambered, yes?
seems you have it thought out and well planned--good luck.

boot gun a 22mag NAA Black Widow 4" just cause......

 

[twoclones]

If i get as far as California, I'll have to keep it locked and unloaded inside my locked side cases.

Ammo and gun in the same case is supposedly a felony in California. I wouldn't even go there... Nevada is very gun friendly with the exception of the Las Vegas area.

You'll need the t-shirt that says "Honk if you've never seen a gun fired from a moving Harley"

 

[Dragk913]

You ever see "Easy Rider"?
Definitely carry a firearm when stopped. As long as you do so law-abidingly, I would rather know I have some form of protection.


Edited to say: Stay away from California..no point going to the KSSR.

 

[mfcmb]

o I'd take it: I got a gun and a CCW to have protection against the unlikely event that I'll be accosted. Even in statistically "safe" areas, you never know when you'll be one of the victims, which is why many people carry. Also, it's not unheard of for pranksters, thieves or bullies from collapsing tents and harassing, robbing or beating campers. I'd feel safer with a gun and a strong flashlight.

o I'd probably carry it, while riding, in a SmartCarry holster: You're going to have to make stops for gas, food, rest, etc. and that's when you're most at risk from a problem where a gun might help, and the SmartCarry should keep the gun in place on the bike, and be least likely to be harmful if you crash.

o Of course one of the hardest parts of such a trip is researching all the relevant laws and regulations so well that you're prepared for all the changes in carry requirements as you go from one jurisdiction to another.

o good luck!

 

[travistheone]

I would keep the gun somehow on your person. On the bike is asking for trouble, through theft or inaccessbility.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

California native

Traveling to California? Put the unloaded gun in one saddlebag in a lockable box, the ammunition and magazines - not over 10 rounds - in another saddlebag or tank bag, and you should be covered. When camping for the night, a campsite is an extension of your home and you are allowed to defend it.

 

[gossamer]

I've been considering the same things as I plan a short trip on my 1976 BMW R60/6 this spring. This is what I've been considering based on a trip last fall without carrying:

I agree with not wearing while riding. I wonder if anyone who says otherwise has taken a spill on a bike with or without a sidearm. The last thing I want to worry about is one other piece of steel strapped to my body near my soft organs just after I've highsided or while I'm sliding along the asphalt at 40mph.

I also agree with wearing it every time you can, legally, while at a stop. Motorcycling makes you more exposed and more "interesting" to people and to potential threats. Also, as you know sidecases AND motorcycles are notoriously easy targets for theft. The last thing you want is to have some greasy highway thief hitting the jackpot in your sidecase: "I thought I was going to find a few pairs of underwear, THIS ain't underwear."

In the camp = on me or in the tent. No exceptions. Again, VERY easy to steal from a motorcycle. If you're in a national park I don't recollect where the law is about bringing a loaded firearm into the park but I'd make sure I checked on it.

Also, from backpacking I learned that trail heads and camping parks are notoriously high-crime areas. I'd carry on my person where legal for sure, and I'd never leave it in my sidecase.

I have only soft-sidded saddle bags so I'm particularly interested in keep the gun secure and on my person wherever possible.

If you have good, locking hard sidecases you are in better shape. I'd love to get a pair of the Touratech Aluminum ones for those times when I have to keep everything locked up. They're still not too tough to get into, but it's better than poly.

Have a great trip. Sounds like a blast.

 

[Evenflo76]

+1 for SmartCarry, obviously not in CA.

+1 for skipping CA, but I would also advise against having unloaded firearm and ammo in same pannier/bag in ANY ban state.

www.handgunlaw.us

Keep the rubber side down...

 

[CoRoMo]

When I'm tempted to leave my hardware behind, I'll stop and ask myself this question...

Am I willing to roll the dice today?
Is today going to be the day?​

That will always prompt me to do the right thing and bring along my gun.

Will you need it? Who knows.
If you will need it, do you want it available? You bet.

I'd advise you to always carry whenever/wherever you legally can, and avoid Cali for life.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

You might want something more powerful than a .45, if dangerous animals are a concern.

 

[chris in va]

I won't be carrying the gun while riding

As a rider myself, I'd consider getting a small KelTec etc and put it in your jacket pocket (with holster). You'll be getting on/off the bike a LOT at questionable/unfamiliar places. Gas stations in the middle of nowhere, restaurants, rest stops, scenic byways etc.

 

[Evenflo76]

forgot to add www.advrider.com

 

[JColdIron]

I agree with not wearing while riding. I wonder if anyone who says otherwise has taken a spill on a bike with or without a sidearm. The last thing I want to worry about is one other piece of steel strapped to my body near my soft organs just after I've highsided or while I'm sliding along the asphalt at 40mph.

I respectfully disagree. If this was an issue motorcycle police officers would have a different way of carrying their side arm than the regular duty belt. Think of it as a skid plate

I'd want it on. If there is a need for a gun it will be needed fast. Not digging through a saddle bag for it. I also would not want to reveal to the world that I was arming myself everytime I got off the bike. Seems like a pain in the butt.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Tank bags exist for carrying concealed pistols where you can get at them while in the saddle, yet off-body so you can do your tumbling routine and keep your kidneys. Sort of like old pommel slings on horseback. I improvised one, myself after taking a tumble and bruising my ribs with a .380 in front jacket pocket.

 

[Ed Ames]

Motor cops are not a good safety reference for motorcyclists to follow. They follow many unsafe practices (improper safety gear topping the list) and get by because they tend to have an insane amount of experience riding.

CA isn't generally gun unfriendly. The big cities are, and they dominate the media and strongly influence the laws, but if you follow some simple rules you'll be fine. Knowledge is important.

Riding is IMO a good reason for CCW and I would have a small (J-frame or keltec/lcp) pistol on my person. No over-bone (sob, hip, etc) carry though.

 

[gossamer]

I'd want it on. If there is a need for a gun it will be needed fast. Not digging through a saddle bag for it.

I don't know about you, but I doubt I'll ever be a good enough rider to go digging through any saddle bags while I'm riding. Second, just because it's not on you doesn't mean it has to be in the saddle bag. I don't ride a café racer, so I have an entire 20" x 14" worth of seat behind me where I can stow a holstered side arm that is accessible enough to get to it as quickly as under my motorcycle jacket and won't travel with me if I go off.

As for the comparison to motorcycle cops: If I were obligated to wear cuffs, a tazer, extra magazines, and everything else they have to carry on their belt I might see a side arm as just another 40oz of steel on my belt waiting to hurt me or go flying in an accident. But I'm not.

Every motorcycle safety course I've taken stresses not wearing extraneous non-protective gear while riding. If it's not my helmet or my touring clothing, I'm not wearing it.

 

[gossamer]

Motor cops are not a good safety reference for motorcyclists to follow. They follow many unsafe practices (improper safety gear topping the list) and get by because they tend to have an insane amount of experience riding.

Agreed. Older motorcycle cops were also taught that if they ever low-side they should get up on top of the bike overturned and RIDE IT INTO THE CRASH.

There's a reason why the MSF doesn't teach this "tactic" in an accident; it injured more people than it saved. My MSF course was taught by an ex-cycle cop. The point he made was there are and were many of the unsafe things taught when he was on the force. He was very pointed, wearing a side arm while riding is an un-safe practice and he never did it when he wasn't in uniform.

 

[TimRB]

For the record, it is *not* against the law to carry ammo and gun inside the same locked case in California. The only requirement is that the gun be unloaded. I believe that most police agencies here think that a gun is "loaded" if a loaded magazine is near the gun.

Tim

 

[B yond]

For the record, it is *not* against the law to carry ammo and gun inside the same locked case in California. The only requirement is that the gun be unloaded. I believe that most police agencies here think that a gun is "loaded" if a loaded magazine is near the gun.

My training regarding this says that there must be a lock between the weapon and loaded mags, and that the weapon must be inside a locked container other than a glovebox. So you could keep the gun and mags in the same saddle bag, but the gun would have to be in a locked container inside the saddle bag and the magazines outside of that locked container.

You CAN have ammo inside the locked case, provided it's not in a mag.

On a side note (because it doesn't really apply to motorcycle trips), long guns don't need to be locked away, and loose ammunition is perfectly acceptable. You could drive around CA with a SxS shotgun on your passenger seat and two shells in your cup holder and that would be legal.

I'm no lawyer though.

 

[altitude_19]

If you're not comfortable carrying while riding (sometimes I do, sometimes I don't) just leave it loaded in the saddlebag, keep the holster on, and throw it on whenever you stop. It's not so tough to discreetly holster the weapon after parking (keep it in mind and park between two vans or something). IF you keep it on while riding, remember to take into account that your jacket while shift upward from your tail-bone while riding and may expose the weapon (happened with my riding jacket). You've heard it a million times before: better to have it and not need it.

 

[TAB]

Also remember in CA, unless its a state or federal park, if your camping it is perfectly legal to have a loaded weapon in your campsite/on your person.

CA sees temp camp sites( as well as hotel rooms, rentals... etc) to be your place of residence. Its kind of funny, CA has some wonderful SD laws and were one of the 1st to pass them, its just CCW that is restricted for most of the population.

 

[snorky18]

why just a .45?

Haven't you seen Terminator 2? Just carry a 12 gauge in a side scabbard.

Seriously though, when I carry while riding, it has always been carried in a horizontal shoulder holster. If I stop anywhere (ie gas station), the jacket gets unzipped far enough that I can easily reach it, but it's not visible. I keep my wallet and cell in the inside jacket pockets next to it, so I have to unzip for them anyway.

I'm sure it's possible to land on it when I carry that way, but it sure seems highly unlikely. Seems like most motorcycle accidents I've seen/heard of, people land on butt, hip, stomach, back, hands, elbows, knees, or some combination of those. Not their armpits.

As far as retention, even if the retention strap broke from an impact (which is possible), my jacket is pretty elasticized at the waist, so I really don't see it finding its way out of my jacket if it somehow got loose

I would certainly not carry on a waist or hip. Nor would I carry anything that wasn't drop safe.

In terms of safety, I would carry for a trip like that. I've spent a lot of nights in the woods in campgrounds and in the back country, and except for one sole night in my 28 years of camping, I've never had any reason to need a firearm, but that one night I was quite thankful to have it, and it serves as a reminder to me the rest of the time to carry as long as there are mean/evil people in the world.

 

[DesmoDucRob]

I like to carry when I ride alone, and would not consider storing an unloaded firearm in a saddlebag etc. Your situation may differ since I'm surrounded by states with reciprocity, but It seems to me that being alone while riding affords a criminal far too many "opportunities". I've been confronted several times by people asking for money at gas pumps. I'm glad that each time it occured they were only ASKING and telling them "no" was enough. I carefully selected the safety gear that I wear when riding, and you are right that carrying a handgun poses a potential crash-related risks. It could be argued that riding alone and not carrying a firearm when legally allowed to also poses certain safety concerns. Good luck with your decision. -Rob