CCW discovered by a anti cop

[4D5]

Observations / Thoughs

Was the off duty cop the individual that bumped you?

What was the probable cause for inquiring if you were armed?

I might have inquired “why do you ask”? Considering today’s electronic gizmos and such it could have been any number of items on your belt, even including a colostomy bag

“I don’t like it” well he can dislike it all he wants but not liking it isn’t relevant.

“but I guess you’re legal” I might have asked what he meant by “guess” since you can be either legal or not legal, guessing is not an option.

Having said this, I still would comply with his requests because he could have made it a bad night for you if he guessed it was time to jack you around.

 

[SaxonPig]

I am second to none in my support of law enforcement... until one acts like a jerk.

I would have told him it wasn't his prerogative to approve or disapprove and if he said anything... I mean anything other than "I'm sorry" then I would have immediately called the PD and requested a superior officer to come and take my complaint.

In 1976 a uniformed officer gave me grief and the next day I hied myself down to the PD and spoke to his captain at length.

A lot of good it did. About 15 years later that same cop was named chief.

I left town.

 

[langenc]

Besides contacting the chief you should contact the restaurant owner and advise him/her of the situation. The cop while on the payroll is an extension of the managements views. Is the owner/manager antigun also. Cop should be unemployeed.

 

[SomeKid]

So, lets get this straight.

An off duty cop.
Outside his jurisdiction.
Makes inappropriate comments.
And you didn't press him?

 

[Papaster]

Crunker1337 has the right idea. The LEO was within legal limits, even acting on his best instincts to ask if the citizen is armed and has his CHL (as Texas law requires showing a license when asked for any type of ID from an LEO). And certainly the concealment was within the legal limits, and appropriate since the officer did not make an arrest for "intentional failure to conceal." And while his manner was far less than appropriate or professional, there have been even worse cases of Police officers not knowing how to handle an armed public. In Garland, an associate of mine was actually placed into custody for an accidental and momentary disclosure of his concealed carry piece (which is protected under the law) prior to even finding out the man had a permit to carry.
I think a better point to draw from this is more along the lines of what Oneshooter is surmising. More care must be taken in large crowds. Avoiding them all together is not always an option (though certainly favorable). I too carry OWB strong side most of the time with an often light cover garment. To avoid inadvertent contact (or, heaven forbid, somebody intentionally getting that close to me for any purpose), I actively position myself toward the outside of the crowd when possible, and drop my strong side elbow back a little to give one more layer between my pistol and anyone else. The dynamics of crowds always put me on edge.
Oneshooter can actually be thankful that his encounter was merely with a disgruntled officer of the law, rather than with a real BG.
Oh, and just FYI, off duty Peace officers in Texas can and do carry, but need a concealed carry permit to carry concealed off duty. They can open carry with their LEO POST certification, but need a CHL to cover their piece (according to a LEO friend of mine). However, obtaining a permit is far easier and cheaper for them, as they only need a letter of recommendation from their sergeant (or other supervisory officer), and $25 in fees.

 

[Soybomb]

The next thing I know the off duty cop( HPD) was showing me his badge and asking if I was armed.

I didn't get his name, just remember him flashing his badge.

I believe if that happened to me I would feel compelled to ask for a uniformed officer to come out. I don't know if your state's laws allow that but it seems like spot checks are out of the ordinary and I wouldn't have the slightest idea if his badge was real or not.

The LEO was within legal limits, even acting on his best instincts to ask if the citizen is armed and has his CHL

I don't know how much best I'll agree with. What indication that a man standing around waiting for a table with a gun on him is committing a crime? It seems like a perfectly legal thing to do. Would he be within his best instincts to ask the man if he has a prescription for the pills he sees him taking with dinner at his table? They might not be legal.

Oh, and just FYI, off duty Peace officers in Texas can and do carry, but need a concealed carry permit to carry concealed off duty.

Leosa should allow them to carry off duty on their department ID I believe.

 

[Warren]

From now on I will try to keep away from crowded venues!

Please don't.

Just because you carry does not mean you have to give up the good things in life.

Many good things come with crowds attached, it is true, but you only have the one life so live it well and don't worry about the almost no chance of this happening again.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I am not aware if off-duty cops are able to carry without a CHL in TX but I don't think they can.

There is no such thing as an "off duty" cop in Texas. They are sworn 24/7 and part of their oath requires a "duty to act".

They do not have to have a CHL to carry their weapon open or concealed at any time as long as they have the badge too.

 

[Old Dog]

Oneshooter, did this "cop" show you ID w/badge, or just "flashed" the badge?
No ID, not a real cop.

 

[Skirmisher]

I would have been curious to see the cop's reaction if your wife asked him if he would like to see her CCW also. Love it when women are armed.

 

[Standing Wolf]

The cop needs to be spoken to by his superiors as to what is appropriate professional behavior.

That assumes his superiors know the difference.

 

[plexreticle]

I trust the average CCW more than I trust the average cop.

He doesn't like it your CCW why? You don't have to rely on him to come save you?

 

[chipperi]

The officer, once he IDed himself was witin his rights to ask me for my CCL. Again within Texas CCL law. Refusing to show it to him would be a felony.

Id'd or not he was off duty therefore not acting in an LEO capacity aka civilian. He should have called an on duty officer to check.

 

[El Tejon]

"You don't like my CCL, cool, 'cause I don't like cops."

 

[TexasRifleman]

Id'd or not he was off duty therefore not acting in an LEO capacity aka civilian.

Again and again...... There is no such thing as "off duty" in Texas Law Enforcement. Their sworn powers apply 24/7, as does their "duty to act".

Texas courts have made that very clear over the years.

 

[mjrodney]

The only thing that would have been gained by confronting this LEO is the escalation of his ire.

Not worth it.

Smile and move on.

 

[elkhuntingfool]

I don't think it's a big deal that the LEO asked for the permit - good for him. However, I do think that his opinion doesn't matter and if he pressed it - which he didn't - then I'd be speaking to the chief, etc...

I still wonder how he spotted it. He must have been looking real hard for something to give it away.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

And I don't like the qual courses that passes for LE firearms training. Typical cop arrogance.

 

[Thain]

Umm... I'm sorry a cop was impolite to you, but in all honestly I can't see why some in this thread are getting so worked up.

A rude cop with an attitude that he is better than the "civilians." I'm not exactly floored by this discovery.

 

[Deanimator]

A rude cop with an attitude that he is better than the "civilians." I'm not exactly floored by this discovery.

100 years ago, somebody in Chicago probably said the same thing.

Today you've got cops stomping on barmaids' heads because they won't serve them, police home invasion rings, and cops shooting people in the head for no reason.

When you let the police get out of control, it's nearly impossible to get them back under control. Don't let it happen in the first place. Those of us from Chicago know what happens when you disregard that advice.

 

[Crimp]

I think David904 got it right. In fact, I would have probably asked him if he wanted to join us for dinner so we could talk about handguns and concealed carry. Who knows, I might've been able to change his mind about CCW, or, at the least, got a better feel about why some cops are anti.

 

[budder]

Quote:
The LEO was within legal limits, even acting on his best instincts to ask if the citizen is armed and has his CHL
I don't know how much best I'll agree with. What indication that a man standing around waiting for a table with a gun on him is committing a crime? It seems like a perfectly legal thing to do. Would he be within his best instincts to ask the man if he has a prescription for the pills he sees him taking with dinner at his table? They might not be legal.

Of course! Don't you have roadblocks every mile to make sure all drivers and licensed, not drinking, have working lights and signals, and have properly updated registration and insurance coverage? God forbid someone drives without a license or a current copy of their insurance!

 

[Matt G]

There are anti cops in Texas. I work with one, as a matter of fact. We've agreed to disagree on the topic.

"Oh, and just FYI, off duty Peace officers in Texas can and do carry, but need a concealed carry permit to carry concealed off duty. They can open carry with their LEO POST certification, but need a CHL to cover their piece (according to a LEO friend of mine). However, obtaining a permit is far easier and cheaper for them, as they only need a letter of recommendation from their sergeant (or other supervisory officer), and $25 in fees."

Some of this is partly true, but not most of it. We use TCLEOSE, not "POST" (a matter of semantics, I suppose). Officers can carry openly off duty with credentials displayed. But then, he's basically carrying on-duty.

Police in Texas do NOT need a CHL to carry off-duty, by Texas law. Their department regulations may say differently. That's between the officer and the department, though-- the state requires only that he have his badge and ID with him (not required to be displayed when carrying concealed.). Some officers get CHLs because they'd rather not be identified as police in some circles. Some officers get them because of department regs. Some officers get them (and this is probably most common) because a CHL lets you bypass the NICS check. Yes, it's only $25 to get one, but we still have to fill out the big background packet.

Given that it's a Class A misdemeanor generally, or a 3rd Degree felony on the premises of locations that are licensed to serve alcohol if the person carrying a pistol has no permit, it is reasonable that the officer would ask for a concealed carry license when he realized someone was carrying there. His muttering that he doesn't like it may be a little bit unprofessional, but he's entitled to his stupid opinion.

If only he had simply stopped and considered this fact: the same state that allowed him to carry a gun in there entitled OneShooter to do so.

 

[RubenZ]

I don't see anything wrong with this.


What if YOU werent a CHL holder? but a drunk punk that had a handgun?

Now. The only thing I do see wrong is that he had to toss in his .2 cents. Which I may have commented back about.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Okay, first off... As TexasRifleman and MattG said, in Texas a LEO is a LEO is a LEO no matter what time of day or what shift you are assigned to. If you aren't wearing the bag and rolling in a cruiser, you are still a LEO sitting on your couch or shopping in Best Buy. And yes, you must show your CHL to a LEO in Texas for any encounter. Many LEOs do get CHLs, but not because it's required to carry when not on the clock. Believe me, it's a lot less hassle to drive to Alabama with a concealed weapon as a civie then it is as a LEO. And skipping the NICS call is fun too.

Now, here's where I'm sour on this story. I don't think at all that bumping into someone constitutes a necessary level of suspicion to ask for identification. Don't believe at all that it would stand up in court. But legal suspicion or not, presenting CHL is the best option in the end.