CCW Permit Holder Comes to the Aid of a Store Manager

[Vern Humphrey]

When one of them broke away, got into his car, and put it in reverse - I realized I was inadvertently standing in his path and nearly got hit by his rear bumper.

I contend that jumping out of the way proved to be a better response than shooting him.

The store manager in this case was apparently unable to jump out of the way. And with her clinging to a moving car, the CCW holder jumping over the moon would not have saved her.

She was in immanent danger of death or grevious bodily harm, and he acted appropriately to save her. His actions were vindicated when the prosecutor saw no chargeable offense in his behavior.

 

[eatont9999]

I have no sympathy for people who blatantly steal and get caught, but can't face the music. I do not feel sorry for that woman. I think not too many years ago, she would have been shot for the act of stealing, never mind aggravated vehicular manslaughter. I probably would have done something similar if I saw a woman being run down in the parking lot. I would most likely see jail time though being in the gun hating state of MA.

 

[DHJenkins]

But the manager is still a complete fool. I'd love to know how much the meat was worth, and which multi-million dollar corporation he so foolishly chased the shoplifter for.

So you believe it's OK to steal so long as it's under a certain value? What is that value exactly?

And what makes you think this wasn't a mom & pop operation?

Oh, and the manager was a she, not a he.

From the story, the manager wasn't trying to grab the person, they were simply trying to write down the license plate number. Maybe her eyesight wasn't good enough to do it from 100' away, or the layout of the building/parking lot dictated that she was very close to the car as soon as she walked out of the front door.

You need to look at the bigger picture. How long would it take that (or any) place to go out of business once word got around that you could simply walk out with whatever you wanted and nothing would happen?

 

[eatont9999]

Also,

Since neither victim commented on the events that took place in that parking lot, we do not know how much the man in the truck knew about the argument. We don't know how long it took either. Maybe he heard the manager yelling at the thief in her car, saw the manager get plowed over and then used his truck to block the assailant's exit. Maybe the woman threatened him or put him in some kind of danger as well.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who would rather avoid a potentially fatal confrontation over a box of wing nuts or pork chops. Let the dirtbag have it!

Oh and to the guy saying this logic is contradictory to my name, no it is not. Batman would stop the commission of a crime, but the dark knight works alone (robin is not in the dark knight series) and does not take well to impostors and the like helping him. Batman would have stopped the thief from stealing, and told the manager never to try that hero garbage again.

Anyways I've said all I've need to said and no point rehashing post after post, I'm done with this thread and if I witness anyone stealing pork chops at the local supermarket this weekend I'll be sure to look away because it's none of my business.

 

[WalkerCountyBoy]

Good Idea

How bout we just let everyone get away, with what ever they want to and have no consequences. Sounds awesome to me! How do you not know if she owned the store herself, or had some invested in the store. So you would just someone steal from you and say hey its OK come again another day and do it again. If it was my store i would want everyone to know hey you steal from my store you better be ready to face the consequences.

 

[WalkerCountyBoy]

Spiderman

Yea thats what spiderman thought too, why should i stop this guy it has nothing to do with me, oh well guess what happened.......bangbangbang... Your grandpa is dead.

 

[rainbowbob]

...the CCW holder jumping over the moon would not have saved her.

Vern: I wasn't suggesting the Good Samaritan should have been jumping anywhere. I'm also not disagreeing with his actions once this mess was in motion

What I am suggesting is...

A: The store, and by extension the employee, should have a policy other than putting themselves and others in harm's way to apprehend petty thieves by chasing them down in the parking lot.

B: If the employee (or any one else) does attempt to get a plate number...DON'T stand in front of or behind the subject's vehicle.

C: DON'T attempt to stop a vehicle from moving by blocking it with your body (which is what I suspect the employee in this case was doing).

 

[lt522]

Are we reading the same post? The manager was not chasing them just following them out to get a tag number (which the police and most companies tell you to do) , then the suspects try to run the manager over and that's OK. Let's say for a minute that the CCWer did not get involved the vehicle while leaving the parking lot hit and killed or seriously injured your wife or child. Would you then say he did the right thing? Or would you say he should have done something , or brag about what you would have done. If you would not help another person who is about to be injured or killed by another maybe you need to leave your gun at home. Now we get to the point of the theft , since stealing is such a small offense don't call the police if someone steals your stuff or for that matter your car as I am sure you have insurance. Since we don't have Batman around , it falls to those of us who are tired of the killing , raping , and stealing , to help if we can. The CCWer deserves a metal not some arm chair quarter back second quessing what he had seconds to decide.

 

[middy]

Yea thats what spiderman thought too, why should i stop this guy it has nothing to do with me, oh well guess what happened.......bangbangbang... Your Uncle Ben is dead.

Fixed.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

What I am suggesting is...

A: The store, and by extension the employee, should have a policy other than putting themselves and others in harm's way to apprehend petty thieves by chasing them down in the parking lot.

That's not what the manager did, according to the story. She was trying to get the license number -- what any good citizen witnessing a crime should do.

B: If the employee (or any one else) does attempt to get a plate number...DON'T stand in front of or behind the subject's vehicle.

She probably wasn't directly in front of the car at first -- but cars have steering wheels.

C: DON'T attempt to stop a vehicle from moving by blocking it with your body (which is what I suspect the employee in this case was doing).

Where's the evidence she was doing that?

 

[ming]

Yeah, I'm totally justifying someone running someone else over. Yep.

What I'm saying is the manager and shooter behaved recklessly by getting themself into a deadly situation over a person who was stealing a few dollars worth of meat, posed no threat to either of them until they got to the car, and would have done no physical, monetary or emotional damage at all to either of them had they just let the dirtbag scram with the meat.

The shooter is justified for saving the manager from serious injury, but the manager behaved recklessly to put themselves in that situation at all. And the manager is lucky all that person had for a weapon was the car.

Answer me this.

Why did the manager chase after a person who was simply shoplifting some meat?

What was the manager supposed to do? Help her load it into her trunk?

 

[middy]

... if I witness anyone stealing pork chops at the local supermarket this weekend I'll be sure to look away because it's none of my business.

 

[Eightball]

At least both the CCW permit holder and the manager were smart enough to say the right things, and nothing else (i.e. "life in danger, no further comment" type stuff).

 

[Vern Humphrey]

At least both the CCW permit holder and the manager were smart enough to say the right things, and nothing else (i.e. "life in danger, no further comment" type stuff).

As F. Lee Baily was wont to say, "Even a fish wouldn't get in trouble if he'd keep his damn' mouth shut."

 

[Arkansas Paul]

It never ceases to amaze me that when something happens during the commission of a crime, that everyone goes out of their way to defend the perpatrator and not the victim. It doesn't matter how much anything costs, what matters is that she was stealing. She was breaking the law. You may not want my opinion, but here it is. It's a pity the bullet didn't go through her skull. Then there would be one less thief to worry about.

 

[TheWarhammer]

Wow! It never ceases to amaze me, too, how many people will bend over backwards to defend the criminal while trying to place an much blame as possible on the victim. Apparently, even on gun forums, defending your rights, property, livelihood or even your neighbor's life is now passe.

Maybe "The Dark Knight" is right. Maybe it's just stupid to try to keep bad people from doing bad things. Maybe we should just stand by and let it happen. Maybe this whole thing really is the manager's fault for caring about her job, her company and her community. In fact, maybe the shop manager is at fault for having all that meat in the first place! If it hadn't been in the store, and the store hadn't been asking for money (the nerve!), then the poor, poor lady wouldn't have had to steal it and try to kill the manager with her car. Maybe we should come up with some sort of system by which nobody has more than anyone else and everybody is just given what they need. Maybe that system could take things from each as he is able to give and provide things to each as he has need. We could act as if we all live in a great big commune. And we could appoint overseers who would surely operate this system in a fair manner, with the people's best interests at heart, and never take undue benefit for themselves. Then we could work on making sure that everyone has free healthcare and then our leader could address our children on TV while they are in school...

 

[eatont9999]

What would have happened if the thief had a gun? Instead of trying to run the store manager over with her car, what if she just shot her in the face and walked away? If a person is capable of intentionally running down another person over some steak, then that person is capable of the cold-blooded murder of any one in their way. This crazy (xxxx) even brought her kid along for the ride. This woman should be locked up and mentally evaluated to see if she is even fit for society.

 

[Cosmoline]

What if it had been the lady on the hood that was in the wrong?

Well you roll your dice. If the store manager getting run down by the hoodlums had been in the wrong the shooter would be in hot water. But she wasn't.

 

[rainbowbob]

Wow! It never ceases to amaze me, too, how many people will bend over backwards to defend the criminal while trying to place an much blame as possible on the victim.

While I thoroughly enjoyed your diatribe, Warhammer, I must insist that no one here is blaming the victim OR her rescuer OR defending her assailant.

What would have happened if the thief had a gun? Instead of trying to run the store manager over with her car, what if she just shot her in the face and walked away?

The point (for me) is that you don't put employees and bystanders in harm's way to stop a shoplifter.

The employee was risking too much for too little by apparently standing in front of the assailants car and attempting to do what? Get her plate? Detain her?

I admire her grit and I understand the instinct to step in and do SOMETHING.

But civilization as we know it would not have collapsed and ushered in an era of world-wide communism had she alerted others in the area that a crime is in progress....called the police...and gave a description of the thief, the car, and and the plate - if she could do so without standing in front of the car or otherwise putting herself and other innocent folks at risk.

Going to the store for smokes and ending up shooting a shoplifter is not going make for a good night - no matter what the outcome is.

 

[GojuBrian]

I'd rather have a shoplifter with holes in them than some missing meat in my store.

"Evil will triumph when good men stand idle and do nothing."

I'm just not a 'do nothing' kind of guy.

 

[benEzra]

Why did the manager chase after a person who was simply shoplifting some meat?

From the original article:

Prosecutors said Carroll and a friend went to the Sunfresh store at 23rd Street and Sterling Avenue to steal meat. The manager saw it happening and followed them to a car in the parking lot, police said.

The manager tried writing down the license plate and yelled at them to stop and for someone to call police.

If trying to write down a plate number to give the police constitutes "playing G.I. Joe" then something is wrong, IMO. She wasn't trying to tackle the shoplifter, she was trying to be a good witness, and the shoplifter tried to kill her.

 

[WLE]

and which multi-million dollar corporation he so foolishly chased the shoplifter for.

Why does it have to be a dollar amount, and what ever happen to morals and doing the right thing? Sounds like a case for another bed wetting trial lawyer.

 

[rbernie]

But civilization as we know it would not have collapsed and ushered in an era of world-wide communism had she alerted others in the area that a crime is in progress....called the police...and gave a description of the thief, the car, and and the plate - if she could do so without standing in front of the car or otherwise putting herself and other innocent folks at risk.

And this is quite possibly what she tried to do. Without knowing the layout of the parking lot or the words that were exchanged in the parking lot, we have no way of knowing exactly HOW the issue was escalated to the point where she was turned into a hood ornament.

Y'all are talking past each other a fair bit, and all the while speculating on the details without knowing them. That doesn't sound like a high quality dialogue to me.



Just sayin'....

 

[Superlite27]

If "if's" and "but's" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a very merry Christmas.

I see it every time.......

"If this would have happened....."

"But, if that would have been the case...."

"If the CCW holder would have...."

"If the perp would have......."

THEY DIDN'T!

Only what happened, happened. "If" was nowhere to be found.

What happened is, a criminal tried to steal something. A manager tried to write down a licence plate, and eneded up almost being run over by the perp. A CCW holder removed the possibility of "if" even happening. Evidently, he was perfectly justified, or else HE WOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED.

But, he wasn't. So there went that "if".

Life would be much more enjoyable if "if" didn't exist.