Los Angeles

[taliv]

Los Angeles

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-no-charges-home-burglary-20150126-story.html

No charges will be filed against an 80-year-old man who fatally shot a woman who was burglarizing his Long Beach home, prosecutors said Monday.

On July 22, Thomas Greer fired two bullets into the back of Andrea Miller, 28, even after she begged him not to shoot and claimed she was pregnant.

Prosecutors say Miller and her suspected accomplice, 26-year-old Gus Adams, had assaulted Greer before prying open a safe and stealing $5,000.

Greer, who was robbed on two other occasions, “held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury,” wrote Los Angeles County Deputy Dist. Atty. Janet Moore, explaining the office’s decision not to charge him.

“Greer exercised his legal and legitimate right of self-defense when he shot and killed Andrea Miller,” Moore wrote.

Authorities claim Ruby Adams served as a lookout while her son, Gus, and Miller allegedly broke into Greer’s home in the 3900 block of Country Club Drive.

Greer picked up a gun from his bedroom and fired at the pair as they fled from his home office, prosecutors said. After Miller was struck, she fell once near his garage, then fell again in an alley near the home.

Greer dragged Miller’s body into his garage in an attempt to lure her accomplice, authorities said. Once Gus Adams returned, prosecutors allege he stole Greer’s gun and phone before hopping into a getaway car driven by his mother.


Gus Adams was charged with five felony counts in connection to the Bixby Knolls break-in: murder, grand theft of a firearm, possession of a firearm by a felon, and first-degree robbery and burglary.

His mother was charged with first-degree residential burglary and first-degree residential robbery.

so dude shoots her in the back while she's fleeing
and then drags her body back inside!

and he got the Los Angeles DA to put “Greer exercised his legal and legitimate right of self-defense when he shot and killed Andrea Miller,” in writing.

 

[RougeLeader1]

Just... how? I am very surprised this passed muster.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad this man Greer was able to handle himself and terminate the situation rather than becoming yet another victim, but I am not sure this sets a good legal precedent.

 

[Golfanaticshooter]

I think if more of these home invasions ended like this one, the precedent might be set to stop doing home invasions. I'm glad he was able to defend himself.

 

[herrwalther]

Not going to pay LATimes to get past their ads. But it looks like this happened in 2015?

 

[RougeLeader1]

But it looks like this happened in 2015?

It did. I had missed that, thank you.

 

[DocRock]

And thus reads the LA Times portrayal of the events….

 

[Paul7]

I think an elderly crime victim gets more leeway to start with when facing young attackers, as they should.

 

[chamokaneman]

Note to self: Don't talk to the media if you get involved in a self defense shooting.

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/...-beach-homeowner-shoots-kills-intruder/54880/

I'm glad they didn't charge him and I think if more things turned out this badly for criminals we'd be better off BUT I do think he was fortunate not to be charged.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

This whole thing stinks. I dont see any good guys here.

 

[hso]

Not going to pay LATimes to get past their ads. But it looks like this happened in 2015?

Yep

By Matt HamiltonStaff Writer
Jan. 26, 2015 9:05 PM PT

 

[Hartkopf]

This is ugly all around. The fact he had been robbed twice before and was elderly might be why he wasn’t charged. BUT, shooting someone in the back as they’re running away is just terrible.

 

[jamesgs4]

This is ugly all around. The fact he had been robbed twice before and was elderly might be why he wasn’t charged. BUT, shooting someone in the back as they’re running away is just terrible.

They were running back to their car to get an axe and gasoline to set him on fire and then chop him up.

 

[Golfanaticshooter]

I think an elderly crime victim gets more leeway to start with when facing young attackers, as they should.

I'm curious as to why. Is an attack not an attack? Does my 23 year old son deserve life less than me in my 50's or my Father-in-Law in his 70's?

 

[Hartkopf]

They were running back to their car to get an axe and gasoline to set him on fire and then chop him up.

That definitely changes everything.

 

[.38 Special]

A few more details, though nothing earthshaking.

https://www.presstelegram.com/gener...-beating-robbery-of-bixby-knolls-homeowner-80

The short version, I think, is that due to his age and the significant injuries he received, it was decided that he could have been reasonably afraid that the attack might continue if he let her go - or at least that a jury could have seen it that way.

She wasn't pregnant, BTW, and I've never heard anything about gasoline and axes. (I was living in the neighborhood at the time.)

 

[Archie]

The reality of the law is having a 'reasonable' fear of death or great bodily harm, not which way the attacker is facing. Also in that context, a person does not have to have a gun. All the defender needs is to have a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm. The attacker doesn't need to have any sort of device, if the victim is a old or frail person and the attacker is shaped like a cross between Godzilla and Bela Lugosi.

In fact, this is perfect precedent. And I'm amazed it comes out of LA.

 

[champ0608]

In my experience and world view, if you shoot someone in the back while they're pleading for their life, regardless of prior circumstances, it is murder.

I was an infantryman. If I did that to an enemy soldier it would be a war crime.

I'm all for self defense. I'm all for harsh and swift punishment of criminals. But IF those are actually the facts, and I'm on the jury, I vote murder.

 

[MEHavey]

Something not quite right in the reporting here. As this had to be a unanimous (vice hung)
jury verdict, methinks "facts-as-reported" have much left out, and no small amount made up.
I'd love to hear the a actual trial transcript itself.

 

[.38 Special]

Something not quite right in the reporting here. As this had to be a unanimous (vice hung)
jury verdict, methinks "facts-as-reported" have much left out, and no small amount made up.
I'd love to hear the a actual trial transcript itself.

There was no trial. The fellow never was charged. That surprises me, coming out of L.A., but I suspect the D.A. simply decided that charging an eighty year old who was badly injured in a violent attack was not good for his political future.

 

[230RN]

jamesgs4 said:
"They were running back to their car to get an axe and gasoline to set him on fire and then chop him up."

Hartkopf answered:

"That definitely changes everything.."

I think maybe jamesgs4 was whimsically answering the question, "How does a victim know when the threat is ended?" A mere retreat is not an indication that the threat is actually over in either the short or long term. I have puzzled over this question for a while, as apparently have others.

Terry, 230RN

 

[mjsdwash]

A bit of a driveby, but for an explanation of everything that happened, look up , George Weller, 86 of Santa Monica. Its unrelated, but will tell everyone everything they need to know.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

There was no trial. The fellow never was charged. That surprises me, coming out of L.A., but I suspect the D.A. simply decided that charging an eighty year old who was badly injured in a violent attack was not good for his political future.

Yeah...when you can hold your breath and die of old age before you pass out, it's probably not going to be a good bet for the DA to take on.

However, I'm of the opinion that what's reported in the media is a bare shadow, and a dim shadow at that, of everything that was considered in this. We don't really have any idea, for instance, of what the timing of this event was, nor the stresses the homeowner was in at the time as a person of quite advanced years.

It seems to me that an LA District Attorney isn't likely to refuse to press charges unless he's pretty sure he's not going to get a conviction for some reason. We can speculate on that reason all we want, but none of us are privy to all the details, and certainly we know the media is historically a poor source of such information.

Now, it could very well be his advanced years played a factor in this. We don't know.

Still, there is room for discussion on scenarios involving shooting someone in the back while in a self-defense situation and what this can mean when attempting to prove the "reasonableness" of this in the eyes of the law.

 

[.38 Special]

Yeah...when you can hold your breath and die of old age before you pass out, it's probably not going to be a good bet for the DA to take on.

However, I'm of the opinion that what's reported in the media is a bare shadow, and a dim shadow at that, of everything that was considered in this. We don't really have any idea, for instance, of what the timing of this event was, nor the stresses the homeowner was in at the time as a person of quite advanced years.

It seems to me that an LA District Attorney isn't likely to refuse to press charges unless he's pretty sure he's not going to get a conviction for some reason. We can speculate on that reason all we want, but none of us are privy to all the details, and certainly we know the media is historically a poor source of such information.

Now, it could very well be his advanced years played a factor in this. We don't know.

Still, there is room for discussion on scenarios involving shooting someone in the back while in a self-defense situation and what this can mean when attempting to prove the "reasonableness" of this in the eyes of the law.

Very well put.

I know that Mas Ayoob, among others, has done good work in pointing out that in the very dynamic scenario typical of a gunfight, folks occasionally get shot in the back for completely legitimate reasons. This particular scenario doesn't seem to be one of those instances, as far as I can tell, and I assume that the general advice for home defenders remains "Don't execute kneeling perpetrators".

 

[Frank Ettin]

…and he got the Los Angeles DA to put “Greer exercised his legal and legitimate right of self-defense when he shot and killed Andrea Miller,” in writing.

At least he got the L. A. Times to say that.

As I’ve said in the past, it’s a waste of time to try to understand the legal issues associated with an incident based on a news media article. There’s too much missing.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

He said she said.

Moral of the story?

STAY OUT of other people's houses if you don't want to get shot. Female, begging on your hands and knees, pregnant, or otherwise.