CCW security in case of Emergency...

[ZeSpectre]

We've had endless discussions about the use of a firearm in various emergencies. Because a co-worker collapsed without warning today it got me to thinking that I would like to discuss this from a slightly different angle.

Lets say there was an emergency in which -you- were incapacitated such as a car accident, heart attack, stroke, or some other no-warning situation. What sorts of things might be done in advance to ensure the security of your sidearm while you are out of the equation?

-My wife knows how to unload, check, and secure all of my firearms and is generally aware of how I carry and where on my person.

-I have all my serial numbers recorded in multiple locations and my arms are all photographed six ways from Sunday.

-I'm also thinking that maybe my wife needs to be aware that if she got an emergency call she should also enquire as to the security of my sidearm. Hadn't thought about that until just now.

So... any other ideas?

Ze

On a related note, does anyone know if paramedics are trained at all with regards to firearms? I have a friend who is an ER nurse in a big, urban, hospital and she had to push like hell to get her department to recognize that teaching triage nurses to handle firearms safely was important.

 

[69cougar]

On our Ambulance I taught the non shooters and made sure the shooters knew how to Clear and store a handgun revolvers and mulitple semi autos We then put it in ziploc baggy then give it to a family member at hospital.

 

[Steven1281]

How come we have to be disarmed just because we're unconscious?????? I taught a previous friend, a nurse, how to safely handle a firearm in just such a situation when CCW came to Missouri three years ago. Her workplace would have nothing to do with training like that, but I wanted to make sure she understood a few of the basics. Keep it holstered if you can, and better to give it to a family member than security/cops if at all possible. Don't know if it ever helped her, but I feel better knowing she has the knowledge of how to handle things. Good post topic!

 

[Trebor]

If you are the one incapacitated, there is isn't much you can do ahead of time to secure your firearms. At a start, I'd say make your CCW permit easy to find in your wallet. That might make it easier to get your gun back later.

How well trained is your wife? Is she a shooter, or did you just show her how to unload your carry gun? I ask because under stress her knowledge and skill level is going to drop as well. If she's also an experienced shooter, unloading and securing your gun shouldn't be much of a problem. But, if she isn't "into gun" and you just showed her the basics of how to clear the chamber and remove the mag, under stress she might fumble or mess up the procedure. It's easy for a newbie to forget and rack the slide and *then* remove the mag. Also, does she have her own CCW permit? If she doesn't, the cops at the scene might not let her take your gun with her. They might insist on holding it until you are well enough to claim it yourself. Of course, everything depends on the exact situation, but these are possibilites to consider.

I've worked in several ER's and hospital policies on firearms on patients is all over the place. Some places have a set policy, do training, and have lock boxes to secure patient firearms and other valuables. Other hospitals have a policy to "always call the police" whenever a firearm is found is turn the gun over to the police. Usually the gun will be in exactly the same condition as it was found. Sometimes they'll call hospital security to secure the gun.

From my perspective, unless the person has personal firearms knowledge, it's better to just secure the gun "as is" instead of having someone with only minimal training unload the gun.

 

[AlaskaErik]

How come we have to be disarmed just because we're unconscious??????

You might come to and be very disoriented and decide that those people trying to rob you need shootin'. Only they're not BGs, they're paramedics. Plus, if you were unconscious, you're probably going to the hospital.

 

[Jamie C.]

Hmm... I think that if I'm unconscious and have EMTs working on me, the disposition of my firearm is the least of my worries.



J.C.

 

[CajunBass]

I think that would be the least of my worries at that point.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Well I'm just trying to brainstorm. If someone else hadn't told me about ICE in your phone I wouldn't have ever thought of it.

(ICE - in case of emergency. Choose an emergency contact number and enter it into your cell phone as ICE, apparently paramedics are being trained to look for that number so they know who to call).

I figured there probably isn't much you can do, but that having photos of your firearm along with serial numbers might at least greatly reduce the chances of it "wandering off" forever.

 

[SniperStraz]

There are so many things that could go wrong there. I suppose we could all wear those red bracelets or dogtags that people who have allergies wear.
"I am carrying a gun. Don't touch it! Go away!"

 

[Len S]

ICE is not used by any medic I know. If you are that incapicated that you cant talk and a medic is playing with your phone he should find a new job. Most medics who do not shoot will not even touch your firearm. There are probably dept. policies in place in areas with concealed carry. In the mommy state of Il only the police are suposed to be armed, the other cops will take posession. The bad guys guns should already be in police possesion before I arrive.



len

 

[ZeSpectre]

Okay, so what we're saying is nobody has any new ideas so I think I'll just put a dog-tag on my CCW that says...
"Hi, my name is flash-of-doom."
"I'm a 1 year old gun and I belong to XXXXX"
"If I'm found wandering my owner would appreciate my return so please call XXX-XXX-XXXX".

 

[CajunBass]

Actually Ze, and this is from what my ex-wife, who was an EMT for 25 years or so told me about how she handled anything of any value, was to turn it over to the police at the scene. I guess most others do the same, and firearms would probably be handled the same way. If they have any kind of official policy I don't know.

But if she was "working" the patient, it would be just something else in the way for someone else to pick up, especially if it was a "grab and go."

Edited to add.

I'll drop her an Email and ask her about it.

 

[shooter45]

I had just this type of expierence a couple of years ago. When I stopped in front of the hospital because I was having a heart attack, a security guard told me to move my car. I said I was having a heart problem and asked him to drive my car to the emergency door. When he got in the car he pushed the seat all the way back and saw my customized S&W 66 laying there. He picked it up and started telling me what a nice gun it was. I said get me to emergency, I don't want to talk guns now.The final outcome was he returned it to my son a couple hours later.
When you are in enough trouble, what happens to your gun (within reason)isn't the first thing on your mind.

 

[c1ogden]

Good topic, answer depends on location.

Here in NJ you must call a law enforcement officer to take the firearm until the owner is able to retrieve it himself. It would be a felony for anyone else to take custody of it unless that person had a carry permit (virtually non-existant in NJ). This isn't much of a problem here because only LEOs can have guns anyway and we always get there before EMS.

 

[Chongosuerte]

About ICE

"ICE is not used by any medic I know. If you are that incapicated that you cant talk and a medic is playing with your phone he should find a new job."

+1 If you are in such a shape that you can't tell me who to call, we're not going to be very concerned with talking to anyone that isn't either in the back of my ambulance or on the other end of that radio.

And personally (neither of the counties I work for have a policy on this) if I find a gun or big knife on a Pt while on scene I will make sure it is secured with an adult if possible before we leave. If I find it while enroute to the hospital I will unload it and lock it in the cabinet with the controlled drugs and give it to either family or security once we arrive at the hospital, and then document the hell out of it.

 

[razorburn]

The ICE thing is on snopes as well. http://www.snopes.com/crime/prevent/icephone.asp

It is an actual campaign, but if you heard the chain letter version several things are false. Paramedics will be pressed for time and likely won't be looking through your cell phone, it's not something they're going to rush to due to many possible drawbacks with cell phone pins or confusion about different methods of phone operation. It'll likely be hospital staff later in the ordeal. If disaster struck and I were in a car accident or suffering from a heart attack or some such thing, whether I get back my gun or not will be of no concern to me. But I did plan for the CCW gun to be an expendable thing in the event of emergency.

 

[Stretchman]

ICE

Not for paramedics as much as for hospitals that are unfamiliar with who you are to be able to contact next of kin. Or for police who have the solemn duty of informing someone that you are no longer amongst the living, or otherwise incapacitated.

ICE is still a good idea.

 

[ZeSpectre]

I was told about ICE by the previously mentioned ER nurse who works at DC General. Seemed like a good idea so I did it.

 

[Bob F.]

As for ICE, have it in my phone, 3#'s actually. And have seen instances when it would be real nice. Back in the day I worked a wreck on the turnpike with 2 fatalities and a 8yr old boy critical. Kid kept asking for his sis while VFD searched the 6 acre laurel thicket in the median. All three victims had been ejected. Troopers finally located an out-of-state relative who was able to ascertain the whereabouts of the sis (safe & sound).

As for what happens to a weapon on unconscious pt, most of our unarmed security force are shooter and competent w/ firearms, as are several of the nurses. What happens to the gun later? Depends... if shady character LEO's can check it out. Otherwise, security in safe until recovery/discharge or turn over to family member, with ID and receipts, etc.

Very gun friendly area.

Bob