Hi all;
I am still a little new to loading, so I thought I'd pass this one by you guys. What has been your experience with CFE 223 in .308, specifically with 168 gr. bullets? It appears that even lower loadings are giving pressure warnings, like flattened, cratered, and even pierced primers. If you want to read a long account of my recent experience, I have included it, but I was just wondering what your experience is with it. Any loads you have cooked up for it would be welcome. I am shooting it out of a LWRC REPR with a 1-6 scope.
WARNING: Reading the following account of my stupidity may cause dismay and loss of hope in humanity, or it may cause bewilderment at the fact that I have not yet collected a Darwin Award.
I got a hold of some Hodgdon CFE 223. I have tried their CFE Pistol in 5.7x28 and I liked it. It burned clean (very clean) and cycled well in my Five-Seven. I figured I would give CFE 223 a whirl in .308.
My rifle is designed for heavier bullets, so I used what is most widely available here abouts: Hornady 168 gr. A-Max. I used brass-tacks CCI Large Rifle primers. In my experience, the "start with" loads are usually nerve-rackingly low velocities, and usually very poor accuracy out of the few calibers I've loaded. So instead of starting with the lowest loading on Hodgdon's website (46.6), I started off with 47.0 gr., and was going to make big steps in charge weight to find a good velocity, and dial it in in smaller steps later. For comparison's sake, I have chronographed some Nosler Custom Competition 168 gr. at 2541 (avg. st.dev. 21.95) out of my rifle.
When I first pulled the trigger on the CFE load, I could tell that the bullets were traveling faster than the Noslers. I checked the chronograph and it was giving me a velocity around 2630... unfortunately, at the end of the string I bumped the power button to the chronograph and lost the working memory on this load.
I was nervous about putting in the next load, given that I had moved up an entire half-grain to 47.5 (something this experience has taught me to NOT DO). The velocities were faster, by about 40 fps. Unfortunately, the third shot did something to knock the sun shades of my chronograph (muzzle blast, concussion, whatever... I checked and I didn't shoot it). So I turned off the chronograph, losing the three shots worth of data I had, and spent another few shots just testing accuracy (it was more accurate than I am as a shooter). A line break was called, so I ejected the mag, opened the bolt, and waited for range goers to hang up targets and what-not. When I went back to shooting, I put the magazine in, hit the bolt release, and BANG! went the gun. No, I didn't bump, pull, squeeze, or tap the trigger. It just fired on its own. Needless to say, I felt I was done testing the CFE 223 in that gun for the day. I did go on to shoot a few factory loads, and no spontaneous firings occurred.
In both CFE loadings, the bolt catch did not stop the bolt fully to the rear, as it did in the factory loadings. I guess either the bolt must have been rebounding a little, and coming forward a little faster than it should have, or the bullet was leaving the barrel quickly enough that there was not enough pressure on the piston to knock the bolt back fast enough.
As far as accuracy, both loads were as good as the Nosler Custom Competition, which is as good or better than all the match grade stuff I have tried. I am a terrible shot, and getting four rounds in a 1.5" group at 100 meters (110 yards) is as good as you can expect from me
When collecting brass, I did note some flattened/cratered primers. What worried me, though, was a pierced primer, where part of the anvil had been forced through the hole in the primer. Also, when I was cleaning my gun, I noticed the firing pin retaining pin was bent.
Anyway, this all worries me a little. I like this powder... it seems to burn clean, like its pistol counterpart, and it also seems to be able to push the bullets to desired velocities and beyond. It also seems to be a little more accurate than my Varget or 4064 loads. Any suggestions on loads or load development would be helpful.
I am still a little new to loading, so I thought I'd pass this one by you guys. What has been your experience with CFE 223 in .308, specifically with 168 gr. bullets? It appears that even lower loadings are giving pressure warnings, like flattened, cratered, and even pierced primers. If you want to read a long account of my recent experience, I have included it, but I was just wondering what your experience is with it. Any loads you have cooked up for it would be welcome. I am shooting it out of a LWRC REPR with a 1-6 scope.
WARNING: Reading the following account of my stupidity may cause dismay and loss of hope in humanity, or it may cause bewilderment at the fact that I have not yet collected a Darwin Award.
I got a hold of some Hodgdon CFE 223. I have tried their CFE Pistol in 5.7x28 and I liked it. It burned clean (very clean) and cycled well in my Five-Seven. I figured I would give CFE 223 a whirl in .308.
My rifle is designed for heavier bullets, so I used what is most widely available here abouts: Hornady 168 gr. A-Max. I used brass-tacks CCI Large Rifle primers. In my experience, the "start with" loads are usually nerve-rackingly low velocities, and usually very poor accuracy out of the few calibers I've loaded. So instead of starting with the lowest loading on Hodgdon's website (46.6), I started off with 47.0 gr., and was going to make big steps in charge weight to find a good velocity, and dial it in in smaller steps later. For comparison's sake, I have chronographed some Nosler Custom Competition 168 gr. at 2541 (avg. st.dev. 21.95) out of my rifle.
When I first pulled the trigger on the CFE load, I could tell that the bullets were traveling faster than the Noslers. I checked the chronograph and it was giving me a velocity around 2630... unfortunately, at the end of the string I bumped the power button to the chronograph and lost the working memory on this load.
I was nervous about putting in the next load, given that I had moved up an entire half-grain to 47.5 (something this experience has taught me to NOT DO). The velocities were faster, by about 40 fps. Unfortunately, the third shot did something to knock the sun shades of my chronograph (muzzle blast, concussion, whatever... I checked and I didn't shoot it). So I turned off the chronograph, losing the three shots worth of data I had, and spent another few shots just testing accuracy (it was more accurate than I am as a shooter). A line break was called, so I ejected the mag, opened the bolt, and waited for range goers to hang up targets and what-not. When I went back to shooting, I put the magazine in, hit the bolt release, and BANG! went the gun. No, I didn't bump, pull, squeeze, or tap the trigger. It just fired on its own. Needless to say, I felt I was done testing the CFE 223 in that gun for the day. I did go on to shoot a few factory loads, and no spontaneous firings occurred.
In both CFE loadings, the bolt catch did not stop the bolt fully to the rear, as it did in the factory loadings. I guess either the bolt must have been rebounding a little, and coming forward a little faster than it should have, or the bullet was leaving the barrel quickly enough that there was not enough pressure on the piston to knock the bolt back fast enough.
As far as accuracy, both loads were as good as the Nosler Custom Competition, which is as good or better than all the match grade stuff I have tried. I am a terrible shot, and getting four rounds in a 1.5" group at 100 meters (110 yards) is as good as you can expect from me
When collecting brass, I did note some flattened/cratered primers. What worried me, though, was a pierced primer, where part of the anvil had been forced through the hole in the primer. Also, when I was cleaning my gun, I noticed the firing pin retaining pin was bent.
Anyway, this all worries me a little. I like this powder... it seems to burn clean, like its pistol counterpart, and it also seems to be able to push the bullets to desired velocities and beyond. It also seems to be a little more accurate than my Varget or 4064 loads. Any suggestions on loads or load development would be helpful.
