Vern Humphrey
Member
What's dangerous is cutting in the midst of small, supple things. They can impede you when you try to move away, deflect the fall of a tree, and so on. Much better to clear out a working space before attacking bigger trees.
Chain-saws as bug-out tools?
- Thread starter Preacherman
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What's dangerous is cutting in the midst of small, supple things. They can impede you when you try to move away, deflect the fall of a tree, and so on. Much better to clear out a working space before attacking bigger trees.
Pheonix ~
Cute kids.
I'd be offering free lessons, too, if I still had work to do. Dang but I hate knocking over trees...
pax
If he hadn't run out of whitewash, he would have bankrupted every boy in the village. ... If he had been a great and wise philosopher, like the writer of this book, he would now have comprehended that Work consists of whatever a body is obliged to do, and that Play consists of whatever a body is not obliged to do. -- Mark Twain
Cute kids.
I'd be offering free lessons, too, if I still had work to do. Dang but I hate knocking over trees...
pax
If he hadn't run out of whitewash, he would have bankrupted every boy in the village. ... If he had been a great and wise philosopher, like the writer of this book, he would now have comprehended that Work consists of whatever a body is obliged to do, and that Play consists of whatever a body is not obliged to do. -- Mark Twain
As a former woods rat shake bolt cutter- some random thoughts- chainsaws are a wonderful tool.
Always think about how and where the tree will go. Is it supported at both ends and you want to cut it in the middle? If you cut from the top in this situation you will have a stuck saw. If it's a big tree you will need another saw or a spare bar and chain to cut it free.
Is the tree under stress? I have seen small 8" diameter trees with so much bending stress on them I took a 12 gauge with slugs and shot them in half, rather than get close with a saw.
We had a big snow a few years ago and the only way out was thru about 10 big trees across the road. with out a saw - no go.
Stihl or Husky-yes and I like at least a 24" bar- that may come from starting out cutting big cedar-we used a four foot bar and had to cut sections from both sides!
Always think about how and where the tree will go. Is it supported at both ends and you want to cut it in the middle? If you cut from the top in this situation you will have a stuck saw. If it's a big tree you will need another saw or a spare bar and chain to cut it free.
Is the tree under stress? I have seen small 8" diameter trees with so much bending stress on them I took a 12 gauge with slugs and shot them in half, rather than get close with a saw.
We had a big snow a few years ago and the only way out was thru about 10 big trees across the road. with out a saw - no go.
Stihl or Husky-yes and I like at least a 24" bar- that may come from starting out cutting big cedar-we used a four foot bar and had to cut sections from both sides!
atlctyslkr
Member
I consider my chainsaw a survival tool. I always keep a good supply of cut wood. In the event of a disruption to the power grid and or gas supply in the winter a chainsaw could be very valuable.
JohnBT
Member
I know it's an old thread, but...
"Yeah, keep it sharp - less work and safer that way. When I was in the woods, I would probably touch it up three or four times a day at least, depending on conditions. After a while you can do it freehand with just a round file with a handle stuck on it."
Great advice. When I was doing tree service work in D.C. I was taught to take a break every hour or so to drink water (no, not beer like some of them did) and sharpen the chain. We used round files with no handles. The largest saw I've ever used, and sharpened, had a 48" bar.
They're pretty good weapons too. I had big truck driver run at me one day after I flipped him off for blowing his horn at me for blocking the road with my dump truck. He got within 25 feet before he realized I was holding a running chainsaw.
I love dropping trees. Big trees. It's an art and even the best make mistakes.
John
"Yeah, keep it sharp - less work and safer that way. When I was in the woods, I would probably touch it up three or four times a day at least, depending on conditions. After a while you can do it freehand with just a round file with a handle stuck on it."
Great advice. When I was doing tree service work in D.C. I was taught to take a break every hour or so to drink water (no, not beer like some of them did) and sharpen the chain. We used round files with no handles. The largest saw I've ever used, and sharpened, had a 48" bar.
They're pretty good weapons too. I had big truck driver run at me one day after I flipped him off for blowing his horn at me for blocking the road with my dump truck. He got within 25 feet before he realized I was holding a running chainsaw.
I love dropping trees. Big trees. It's an art and even the best make mistakes.
John
I did residential tree removal 4 different summers in Little Rock, Arkansas. Cut a lot of trees up in squeaky-tight places: house, fence, powerlines, shed, etc. We used Jonsered's the owner picked up in pawn shops. If I had my druthers, I'd pick up a med-large Jonsered/Stihl/Husky with two bars: a shorter 30" & a larger 48".
Unless you are getting paid to do it, do not cut with a chain saw on anything but solid ground. Every dollar you spend hiring a good crew with climbers will be $10 you don't spend on fixing your roof after sending a log through it, or $100 you don't spend on health care/funeral costs. Ain't effing worth it. I've seen too many guys who do it for a living get injured. Some homeowner with a Homelight & a shakey ladder is one springy limb away from collecting his life insurance.
This is truth. Keep all the above safety tips in mind.hso said:
Unless you are getting paid to do it, do not cut with a chain saw on anything but solid ground. Every dollar you spend hiring a good crew with climbers will be $10 you don't spend on fixing your roof after sending a log through it, or $100 you don't spend on health care/funeral costs. Ain't effing worth it. I've seen too many guys who do it for a living get injured. Some homeowner with a Homelight & a shakey ladder is one springy limb away from collecting his life insurance.
Yup, most injuries I saw were from guys doing just that, WAY up in the tree. No climbing for me, thanks.TallPine said:
I had a good experiance with one of those little chainsaws on a stick, used it to clear some decent sized trees and branches after a florida storm. and I felt comfortable as a novice being four feet from the blade.
prior to that my only experiance with chainsaws was one I kept by the door in my old college appartment to run off vandals (some of the drunk fratboys liked to kick over motorcycles and stomp on them)
nothing says go away and don't come back like a crazy mo fo with a chainsaw yelling at you.
prior to that my only experiance with chainsaws was one I kept by the door in my old college appartment to run off vandals (some of the drunk fratboys liked to kick over motorcycles and stomp on them)
nothing says go away and don't come back like a crazy mo fo with a chainsaw yelling at you.
JohnBT
Member
Safety, safety, safety. If you have to use a ladder tie the top to the tree. Tie you to the tree. The old pros I worked with usually tied the chainsaw to thems using enough length to let the saw fall far below them, although I have seen it tied to the tree.
Saw a guy ride a huge elm limb up and down like a bronco after he cut the cable bolted to the limb above. He didn't like it. Then he had to cut the other 14 in just that tree. It was a big estate.
"Cut a lot of trees up in squeaky-tight places"
I used to hate working in the Georgetown neighborhood of D.C. because of the tiny backyards. Those old alleys are so narrow we'd have to fold the mirrors in on the dumptruck before we could back down them. Try that with a chipper on the hitch.
Then we'd start at the top and use ropes to lower one little piece at a time. If you dropped one it usually ended up going through some antique greenhouse-style sunporch or crushing a marble fountain or something. Too dern tedious, but that's why it paid well.
I love dropping trees.
John
Saw a guy ride a huge elm limb up and down like a bronco after he cut the cable bolted to the limb above. He didn't like it. Then he had to cut the other 14 in just that tree. It was a big estate.
"Cut a lot of trees up in squeaky-tight places"
I used to hate working in the Georgetown neighborhood of D.C. because of the tiny backyards. Those old alleys are so narrow we'd have to fold the mirrors in on the dumptruck before we could back down them. Try that with a chipper on the hitch.
Then we'd start at the top and use ropes to lower one little piece at a time. If you dropped one it usually ended up going through some antique greenhouse-style sunporch or crushing a marble fountain or something. Too dern tedious, but that's why it paid well.
I love dropping trees.
John
U.S.SFC_RET
Member
Always keep your chain sharp. Never cut above your head when you are cutting off a limb. Always think about the balance of the tree and where it's going to fall. When you limb a tree think about all of that stored energy that's waiting to hurt you once you cut it. When you cut horizontal wood never cut with your face above the chainsaw, always lean to your strong side a bit in case kickback. Get rid of that old saw from the sixties, the seventies and whatever. they will kill you if you don't know how to handle the kickback from them. New chainsaws have brakes that are designed to stop the chain and the older chain is more apt to cause a kickback in the first place. Always keep your feet clear wherever you walk and cut. Never get too comfortable with a chainsaw because she can give you a rude awakening.
I spent about 8 months working in a small engine shop, fixing lots of chainsaws (among other things). Having worked on most everything, the four brands I would be willing to buy are Stihl, Husky, Pioneer (out of business now, but the saws are still excellent), and Echo. Stihl would be my first choice. Poulan, Homelite, Craftsman, and the current McCullochs* are junk. Some work fine (just like Hi-Point pistols), but the wise buyer wouldn't choose to rely on one.
If you do buy a saw, a couple tips. Always make sure to use the proper oil/gas mix, not straight gasoline. Leave the oil out, and you will score the snot out of your piston and cylinder. Repair cost: $300+.
Secondly, if you leave the saw for more than a few weeks without use (like, say, in a bugout kit) add fuel stabilizer (like StaBil or Pri-G) to both the gas in the saw and any mixed gas you are keeping for it. Plain gas will go bad in as little as two weeks (in extreme cases) and will almost certainly be nasty after being left over a season. If the gas goes bad, it will destroy the diaphragms in your carburetor (and possibly fuel lines too). The repair cost isn't as bad (we charged ~$50 for this work, depending on severity), but the saw won't run when you really need it.
Sharp is good. Get a couple extra chains, and also some sharpening files (and learn how to use them). Swapping to a new chain is a lot faster than sharpening a chain.
And speaking of chains, proper chain tension is when a gentle pull won't quite lift the chain's drive links free of the bar. When putting a chain on, the quick way to get it right is to hold the tip of the bar up and tighten the chain until the bottom pulls up and just contacts the bottom of the bar. Then (still holding the tip up) tighten the bar nuts. Hand tighening with a small wrench (or the skrench that may have come with your saw) is fine, they shouldn't be like truck lug nuts.
I can't really say much about proper use of a saw, as I've done basically no work using them (I just fixed 'em).
* McCulloch went out of business a few years ago, and was bought out by a Chinese corporation. The older pre-buyout McCullochs are good saws, but they're all getting a bit old, and hard to get parts for. The new saws are the same quality as the Poulans, Homelites, etc.
If you do buy a saw, a couple tips. Always make sure to use the proper oil/gas mix, not straight gasoline. Leave the oil out, and you will score the snot out of your piston and cylinder. Repair cost: $300+.
Secondly, if you leave the saw for more than a few weeks without use (like, say, in a bugout kit) add fuel stabilizer (like StaBil or Pri-G) to both the gas in the saw and any mixed gas you are keeping for it. Plain gas will go bad in as little as two weeks (in extreme cases) and will almost certainly be nasty after being left over a season. If the gas goes bad, it will destroy the diaphragms in your carburetor (and possibly fuel lines too). The repair cost isn't as bad (we charged ~$50 for this work, depending on severity), but the saw won't run when you really need it.
Sharp is good. Get a couple extra chains, and also some sharpening files (and learn how to use them). Swapping to a new chain is a lot faster than sharpening a chain.
And speaking of chains, proper chain tension is when a gentle pull won't quite lift the chain's drive links free of the bar. When putting a chain on, the quick way to get it right is to hold the tip of the bar up and tighten the chain until the bottom pulls up and just contacts the bottom of the bar. Then (still holding the tip up) tighten the bar nuts. Hand tighening with a small wrench (or the skrench that may have come with your saw) is fine, they shouldn't be like truck lug nuts.
I can't really say much about proper use of a saw, as I've done basically no work using them (I just fixed 'em).
* McCulloch went out of business a few years ago, and was bought out by a Chinese corporation. The older pre-buyout McCullochs are good saws, but they're all getting a bit old, and hard to get parts for. The new saws are the same quality as the Poulans, Homelites, etc.
IMO chain saws are essential outdoors equipment
the dangers are indeed kick back when the end of the saw contacts a object.
But far more dangerous is operating one to the point of extreme fatigue, that is when accident happen -- accidental saw contacts with the leg, toes, hands.
the dangers are indeed kick back when the end of the saw contacts a object.
But far more dangerous is operating one to the point of extreme fatigue, that is when accident happen -- accidental saw contacts with the leg, toes, hands.
cassandrasdaddy
Member
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- Jul 1, 2006
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not the smartest guy
my biggest problem is that i try to keep up with the saw. in other words it can do way more work than i can. i find my self trying to match the saws prolific output and rushing can get you hurt. knicked a hole in my jeans ondce pucker factor very high was afraid to look. and i fear widowmakers. my wife laughs about how i haul buns when tree starts to move but she was there when a 120 foot lond dead oak shed its top 30 feet and it crashed down right at base of tree. an area i had vacated at my maximum speed just seconds before. i also am very willing to sacrifice a chain saw to keep me sfe. i'll leaver it and run in a heartbeat. great tool can be humbling
my biggest problem is that i try to keep up with the saw. in other words it can do way more work than i can. i find my self trying to match the saws prolific output and rushing can get you hurt. knicked a hole in my jeans ondce pucker factor very high was afraid to look. and i fear widowmakers. my wife laughs about how i haul buns when tree starts to move but she was there when a 120 foot lond dead oak shed its top 30 feet and it crashed down right at base of tree. an area i had vacated at my maximum speed just seconds before. i also am very willing to sacrifice a chain saw to keep me sfe. i'll leaver it and run in a heartbeat. great tool can be humbling
JesseJames
Member
Lots of great advice.
I've worked with chainsaws and they are terrific tools.
I've yet to mess myself up with one yet. Knock on wood.
Don't rush the work. Think about your stance and your cut.
Recommend face-shield or safety glasses of course. Good fitting work gloves with good grip.
Also, they have chainsaw chaps if you want to get really safety conscious. They're lined with long Kevlar strands so if you do slip the strands get caught up in the chain and hang it up thus saving your leg.
It can't be stressed enough NOT to work while you are fatigued. You get careless and then you're just asking for it then.
Also, depending on how big your job is you may want to invest in a chainsaw blade sharpening tool. They have ones where you can hook it up to your car battery. Or just buy one or two extra chains if you don't want the bother. If you're cutting through hardwood, those blades will get dull FAST, your cutting effectiveness will be degraded and you will get hot and bothered and may make a tragic mistake.
I've worked with chainsaws and they are terrific tools.
I've yet to mess myself up with one yet. Knock on wood.
Don't rush the work. Think about your stance and your cut.
Recommend face-shield or safety glasses of course. Good fitting work gloves with good grip.
Also, they have chainsaw chaps if you want to get really safety conscious. They're lined with long Kevlar strands so if you do slip the strands get caught up in the chain and hang it up thus saving your leg.
It can't be stressed enough NOT to work while you are fatigued. You get careless and then you're just asking for it then.
Also, depending on how big your job is you may want to invest in a chainsaw blade sharpening tool. They have ones where you can hook it up to your car battery. Or just buy one or two extra chains if you don't want the bother. If you're cutting through hardwood, those blades will get dull FAST, your cutting effectiveness will be degraded and you will get hot and bothered and may make a tragic mistake.
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I hear you about the widow makers
Like you I use great caution when cutting trees
have seen some come down in strange ways and then even get stranger.
One can never be too careful , surprising how heavy even a small tree can be.
And when things need "thought out" I smoke one thinking it out. Taking your time is important .
Like you I use great caution when cutting trees
have seen some come down in strange ways and then even get stranger.
One can never be too careful , surprising how heavy even a small tree can be.
And when things need "thought out" I smoke one thinking it out. Taking your time is important .
Ok.....I read three pages of posts and not a single mention of wedges. I carry atleast four to six plastic wedges and a 3lbs engineers hammmer with me when ever cutting. The wedges can get your saw unstuck in a hurry.
They are also good for felling trees in a more guided direction. You notch the tree on the side you want it to fall on. Then start your back cut. When the top of the tree starts to waver, stop sawing and turn it off. PLace a wedge in the backcut and hammer it in. Tree goes boom. Much safer and controled than trying to unass yourself from a falling tree with a running saw.
I've also found I don't use my chainsaw much for anything smaller than about 18" anymore. I have an axe and a 36" deep tooth bow saw. The bow saw may be slower, but it is just as effective and quieter. Besides, many of us can use the exercise in "peacetime", but when SHTF the Stihl comes out to play.
They are also good for felling trees in a more guided direction. You notch the tree on the side you want it to fall on. Then start your back cut. When the top of the tree starts to waver, stop sawing and turn it off. PLace a wedge in the backcut and hammer it in. Tree goes boom. Much safer and controled than trying to unass yourself from a falling tree with a running saw.
I've also found I don't use my chainsaw much for anything smaller than about 18" anymore. I have an axe and a 36" deep tooth bow saw. The bow saw may be slower, but it is just as effective and quieter. Besides, many of us can use the exercise in "peacetime", but when SHTF the Stihl comes out to play.
wingnutx
Member
Chainsaws have been proven to be just as effective as a boomstick against zombies.
Thin Black Line
Member
LOL
Classic.
Classic.
lawson
Member
when camping, I bring along a small Stihl 12" chainsaw.
in arizona, you can use trees that are dead and down (fallen) for firewood. since this state has a high fire danger, we are doing a good service by getting all the firewood for the trip this way.
with a chainsaw, a fallen tree can become a weekend's worth of firewood in under an hour. lop the limbs off with a hatchet, and then use the saw to cut it into chunks. using just an axe, this same job could take all day.
if you are bugging out in a vehicle, a chainsaw doesn't take much room and will come in very handy. chainsaw for the big jobs, hatchet or handsaw for the smaller ones. you may not use the chainsaw as much as other tools, but when you need it, you'll be glad to have it.
in arizona, you can use trees that are dead and down (fallen) for firewood. since this state has a high fire danger, we are doing a good service by getting all the firewood for the trip this way.
with a chainsaw, a fallen tree can become a weekend's worth of firewood in under an hour. lop the limbs off with a hatchet, and then use the saw to cut it into chunks. using just an axe, this same job could take all day.
if you are bugging out in a vehicle, a chainsaw doesn't take much room and will come in very handy. chainsaw for the big jobs, hatchet or handsaw for the smaller ones. you may not use the chainsaw as much as other tools, but when you need it, you'll be glad to have it.
As a professional 
chainsaw operator and logger I can offer some tips I believe...
First, buy a Stihl, it need not be a big fancy one but I wouldn't use anything else.
You'll need some mixed gas and bar & chain oil. 2.5gal of gas should go more than all day in a little saw, your bar & chain oil consumption should be half of that or less.
You'll need some tools to keep it sharp:
A round file for the cutting teeth, with a guide preferably to do a better job with less room for error.
A filing gaugle to clean the sawdust out of the bar's channel and measure your rakers height, etc.
And a flat file for filing the rakers down to the proper level.
Parts to have on hand:
Ideally replacement parts should go: 3 chains, 2 sprockets, 1 bar...
A spare bar is handy to have just in case, a spot-welded bar is sufficient for regular/non-professional use and cheaper to purchase.
Do not be without a spare chain!
Sprocket: Get at least one, they're cheap!
Cutting Techniques:
I'm not a feller so I can't speak on that much other than watch the lean and retreat at a 45 degree angle after your finishing cut.
Watch the tip of the bar!
If you're cutting two trees that are parallel don't let your tip touch the one you aren't cutting. I won't say don't cut with the tip, just don't do it accidentally!
When limbing watch that tip! It's real easy to run the saw down the the upper side of the tree parallel with it and right into your leg. Don't do this!
Watch your cut so as not to pinch the saw, it's very annoying and can destroy the bar in some cases. Out in the woods we very often need a machine to life the tree the to get the saw out. If you have a spare bar and chain you can take off the pinched one and go to work with the other. Sometimes you can remove the powerhead and the bar will come out and the chain will come after. Don't count on it though.
Kickback: It will happen eventually if you're cutting enough. Be prepared for it, maintain a firm grip with both hands. Keep your left elbow locked if possible. Not letting go with your right hand will go a long ways too! I've had a few scares, but like someone said above, I haven't hurt myself with a running saw. Have scars from chain sharpening/inspecting, etc.
Sorry if this isn't organized the best but I've been collecting my thoughts for a while and hope I didn't forget toooo much here. If anyone has any questions feel free to contact me and hopefully I'll know!
chainsaw operator and logger I can offer some tips I believe...First, buy a Stihl, it need not be a big fancy one but I wouldn't use anything else.
You'll need some mixed gas and bar & chain oil. 2.5gal of gas should go more than all day in a little saw, your bar & chain oil consumption should be half of that or less.
You'll need some tools to keep it sharp:
A round file for the cutting teeth, with a guide preferably to do a better job with less room for error.
A filing gaugle to clean the sawdust out of the bar's channel and measure your rakers height, etc.
And a flat file for filing the rakers down to the proper level.
Parts to have on hand:
Ideally replacement parts should go: 3 chains, 2 sprockets, 1 bar...
A spare bar is handy to have just in case, a spot-welded bar is sufficient for regular/non-professional use and cheaper to purchase.
Do not be without a spare chain!
Sprocket: Get at least one, they're cheap!
Cutting Techniques:
I'm not a feller so I can't speak on that much other than watch the lean and retreat at a 45 degree angle after your finishing cut.
Watch the tip of the bar!
If you're cutting two trees that are parallel don't let your tip touch the one you aren't cutting. I won't say don't cut with the tip, just don't do it accidentally!
When limbing watch that tip! It's real easy to run the saw down the the upper side of the tree parallel with it and right into your leg. Don't do this!
Watch your cut so as not to pinch the saw, it's very annoying and can destroy the bar in some cases. Out in the woods we very often need a machine to life the tree the to get the saw out. If you have a spare bar and chain you can take off the pinched one and go to work with the other. Sometimes you can remove the powerhead and the bar will come out and the chain will come after. Don't count on it though.
Kickback: It will happen eventually if you're cutting enough. Be prepared for it, maintain a firm grip with both hands. Keep your left elbow locked if possible. Not letting go with your right hand will go a long ways too! I've had a few scares, but like someone said above, I haven't hurt myself with a running saw. Have scars from chain sharpening/inspecting, etc.
Sorry if this isn't organized the best but I've been collecting my thoughts for a while and hope I didn't forget toooo much here. If anyone has any questions feel free to contact me and hopefully I'll know!
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One time we had a freeze and heavy snow for a week or two and then a warm rain and wind. Seemed like every tree around came down. The only way out our dead end street was with a chainsaw, rope and truck. (to pull the cut trees out of the way.
other chainsaw gear- two plastic wedges and an axe to drive them.
other chainsaw gear- two plastic wedges and an axe to drive them.
TallPine
Member
An excellent resource for all things woods related:
http://www.baileys-online.com/
648E has given excellent advice
Speaking of plastic wedges, some years back they came out with a "Hardhead" wedge - a plastic falling wedge with a steel insert. I used to carry (in fact my belt pouch is still loaded with these) a large Hardhead wedge along with a couple of smaller plastic ones. Most times I could use the big wedge as a hammer to drive in the smaller ones, or else I could use the single bit axe and and the big Hardhead to drive over a stubborn tree.
Falling big trees is a rush If I wasn't getting so old and tired and the environmentalists weren't such a PITA, I would still be doing it.
http://www.baileys-online.com/
648E has given excellent advice
Speaking of plastic wedges, some years back they came out with a "Hardhead" wedge - a plastic falling wedge with a steel insert. I used to carry (in fact my belt pouch is still loaded with these) a large Hardhead wedge along with a couple of smaller plastic ones. Most times I could use the big wedge as a hammer to drive in the smaller ones, or else I could use the single bit axe and and the big Hardhead to drive over a stubborn tree.
Falling big trees is a rush
If I wasn't getting so old and tired and the environmentalists weren't such a PITA, I would still be doing it.Thanks TallPine!
I'm on my 3rd year in the woods now and still have alot to learn. I'm young though so it should all come together one of these years.
We cut pretty small wood around here where a 26" tree is considered large!
I have a Stihl MS310 with an 18" bar/chain used primarily for limbing and run a Stihl MS440 with a 20" bar/chain for bucking/butting and in the bigger, denser wood. Our operation is mechanized but the slasher isn't much good for 20' logs!
Another site with ALOT of good information, plus parts, accessories, and even saws:
http://www.madsens1.com/
I'm on my 3rd year in the woods now and still have alot to learn. I'm young though so it should all come together one of these years.
We cut pretty small wood around here where a 26" tree is considered large!
I have a Stihl MS310 with an 18" bar/chain used primarily for limbing and run a Stihl MS440 with a 20" bar/chain for bucking/butting and in the bigger, denser wood. Our operation is mechanized but the slasher isn't much good for 20' logs!
Another site with ALOT of good information, plus parts, accessories, and even saws:
http://www.madsens1.com/
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