Changing to a different recoil spring in SIG-P238

[LightningMan]

NOTICE: Use this information at your own risk! This is what I did with my SIG P238 as an attempt to increase the recoil spring life, which do not last, or maintain their strength, as my original factory one gave up (broke) after about 400 rounds. I called SIG-SAUER and they sent me two replacements (NC) and I also ordered 2 Wolf, 13 lb. Colt Mustang springs. Tried one of each, and found after a few trips to the range, and comparing them to the un-used one of each type. I could see both were shorter than when they started, it seemed more noticeable with the original factory type. I just figured I would have to live with the fact that I was going to have to replace springs from time to time. That was before last week, as there may be a better way, when I bought a Kahr P380, and noticed they use 2 springs (one inside the other) also noticed while doing some comparisons that the springs from the Kahr would fit on the guide rod of the P238. This got me thinking, so I ordered a set from Kahr ($10+$5 S&H) I got them a few days ago, and installed them as is, but found I could not get the slide back far enough the lock open. This was probably caused by the more spring coils per inch, compared to the SIG spring otherwise they were the same OAL. So I ended up cutting the Kahr springs down on the open end (a little at a time) finally to about 11 1/2 coils (about 2 3/16" long) on the large one and just made the small one the same length, maybe a tad shorter. This would allow the slide to travel far enough to catch the slide-lock, yet this double spring system still had more spring tension than having either of the single springs installed. Now I just returned from the range today having shot both my new Kahr and did a test firing on my SIG-P238. I only put 50 rounds through the Kahr with good results, with only one FTF, but that could have been my reloads fault. Now it was the SIG’s turn, 100 rounds later (50 FMJ & 50 RNL) and I’m pleased to say it worked flawlessly, no FTF, no FTE, no problems what so ever, as it worked perfectly. I am optimistic, but only more shooting will tell if this duel spring system is longer lasting. LM

 

[9mmepiphany]

I just figured I would have to live with the fact that I was going to have to replace springs from time to time.

You should be replacing your springs at regular intervals anyway. The shorter the spring tunnel and lighter the slide, the more frequently you'll have to replace the springs...it's just regular maintenance, like replacing brake shoes

 

[LightningMan]

9mmepiphany, yes I do realize you have to change springs from time to time, I'm just trying to extend the time between changing them. Kind of like going from regular motor oil to synthic oil. LM

 

[Guns and more]

Keep us posted. Maybe Sig could learn something.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Keep us posted. Maybe Sig could learn something.

Yeah, they need to learn something.
Mine is on it's 4th spring in a little over 300 rounds and a trip to SIG and it's still a Jam-O-Matic.:banghead:

A new spring is on the bottom.

 

[LightningMan]

I will follow up with any reports, as to how the springs are holding up, but I only get to the range on the weekends, and sometimes that doesn't always happen. I forgot to mention that after that range test, I did a measurement of the springs and found them only slightly shorter than when installed. (about 1/16 of an inch) Thats better than the 1/4" lost with the Wolf spring from a similar range secesson.
(I usually shoot no more than 100 rds. per gun in a secession) LM.

 

[piece of meat]

its a shame about all the problems with those..they seem like a really cool little gun but it seems like MOST of them are all-round pieces of crap.

 

[kokapelli]

Mine isn't a piece of crap! Mine has been flawless and by far the best shooting pocket 380. I have shot.

 

[Shadowdancer]

Mine has been a joy to shoot and is my EDC.

 

[AK103K]

I forgot to mention that after that range test, I did a measurement of the springs and found them only slightly shorter than when installed. (about 1/16 of an inch) Thats better than the 1/4" lost with the Wolf spring from a similar range secesson.

I had a little over 700 rounds through mine, and my factory spring never changed in length, nor did it ever get mangled, like some of the pics of others I've seen. It had around 600 rounds on it by itself, and a couple of Wolff replacements had the rest, with the 12 pounder having the most, around 100 rounds.

The factory spring, with only a couple of hundred rounds on it, was the same length as the new Wolff 12# spring, and was still the same length and shape at the end. The Wolff had maybe a hundred rounds on it, but the results were the same, and the gun never functioned properly with any of them.

 

[LightningMan]

piece of meat, I know there have been problems with some of some of the P238 models (soft slide etc.) and that is sad, but the most complant I hear about is the life of the recoil spring.
Example: On SIG forum; http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/9460026022/p/2
You would think SIG could come up with a better spring system that would increase that life. I don't think it's to much to expect at least 1000 rds. before changing them, or maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part. LM
FWIW, mine has worked fine from the get go, and it didn't fail to work untill the recoil spring broke, at or near 400 rds.

 

[AK103K]

My manual stated the recommended life was 1500 rounds, but during a call to SIG customer service, I was told it was 1000 rounds. Seems like they are still in the R&D stage spring wise.

Either way, its still an awful short spring life, and something that seems to be common with all the smaller 1911 type guns, and something that puts you in somewhat of a spot if you shoot what you carry on a regular basis. You need to be diligent with your record keeping round counts (something I'm not always all that great with, once I settle in with a gun), and you always have that nagging feeling in the back of your head as to where you are in the round count, and when it might become an issue.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'd think even 1000 rounds would be pushing the envelope on the 238 between spring changes...I'm thinking more along the lines of 500-700

The danger is that due to the shorter recoil spring tunnel, the spring will "go solid" which in turn transmits a lot of force to the frame/slide stop

 

[kokapelli]

I'd think even 1000 rounds would be pushing the envelope on the 238 between spring changes...I'm thinking more along the lines of 500-700

The danger is that due to the shorter recoil spring tunnel, the spring will "go solid" which in turn transmits a lot of force to the frame/slide stop

If that were the case than it would be true of all of the micro pocket pistols since they all have "the shorter recoil spring tunnel."

 

[9mmepiphany]

Shorter is relative. As long as there is enough room/travel for the spring to function without going rigid, you're not beating the spring/gun to death

 

[kokapelli]

Shorter is relative. As long as there is enough room/travel for the spring to function without going rigid, you're not beating the spring/gun to death

I have owned P-32s, P-3ATs, an NAA Guardian, a Baretta Tom Cat, a Micro Desert Eagle, a Diamondback, a TCP and a P238 and all have short recoil springs. I have always replaced recoil springs in these pistols at or around 1000 rounds and all the springs in all the pistols were shorter than they were originally but never caused any problems out to the 1000 round mark.

Could you explain what you mean by "going rigid"?

 

[Guns and more]

MOST of them are all-round pieces of crap.

I don't think so. I just think most people having problems post often.
Those with no problems don't post as much.
Mine has been flawless.


.........and if you think it's piece of crap, don't buy one.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Could you explain what you mean by "going rigid"?

When there isn't enough room in the tunnel for the spring to work correctly, it becomes fully compressed before (sometimes well before) the slide comes to the end of it's travel and loses it's ability to cushion the force of the slide moving rearward. the coils stack atop each other and slam into whatever they are seated against.

it also shortens the dwell time the slide has at the end of it's travel to allow the mag spring to bring up the next round in the mag tube

 

[Jolly Rogers]

"When there isn't enough room in the tunnel for the spring to work correctly, it becomes fully compressed before (sometimes well before) the slide comes to the end of it's travel and loses it's ability to cushion the force of the slide moving rearward. the coils stack atop each other and slam into whatever they are seated against."

An easy way to check for "coil bind" ,the proper term for a stacked coil spring, is to measure the slide travel without the spring installed. Then install the spring and check the travel. If the spring restricts the slide travel it is too long. If the slide stops in the same spot with and without the spring there is no bind and the spring cannot "go rigid". There is another mechanism that stops the slide travel and the gun is safe to shoot.
Joe

 

[sidheshooter]

One more happy P238 owner. I will be getting a bunch of spare springs though.

 

[ruger1228]

NOTICE: Use this information at your own risk! This is what I did with my SIG P238 as an attempt to increase the recoil spring life, which do not last, or maintain their strength, as my original factory one gave up (broke) after about 400 rounds. I called SIG-SAUER and they sent me two replacements (NC) and I also ordered 2 Wolf, 13 lb. Colt Mustang springs. Tried one of each, and found after a few trips to the range, and comparing them to the un-used one of each type. I could see both were shorter than when they started, it seemed more noticeable with the original factory type. I just figured I would have to live with the fact that I was going to have to replace springs from time to time. That was before last week, as there may be a better way, when I bought a Kahr P380, and noticed they use 2 springs (one inside the other) also noticed while doing some comparisons that the springs from the Kahr would fit on the guide rod of the P238. This got me thinking, so I ordered a set from Kahr ($10+$5 S&H) I got them a few days ago, and installed them as is, but found I could not get the slide back far enough the lock open. This was probably caused by the more spring coils per inch, compared to the SIG spring otherwise they were the same OAL. So I ended up cutting the Kahr springs down on the open end (a little at a time) finally to about 11 1/2 coils (about 2 3/16" long) on the large one and just made the small one the same length, maybe a tad shorter. This would allow the slide to travel far enough to catch the slide-lock, yet this double spring system still had more spring tension than having either of the single springs installed. Now I just returned from the range today having shot both my new Kahr and did a test firing on my SIG-P238. I only put 50 rounds through the Kahr with good results, with only one FTF, but that could have been my reloads fault. Now it was the SIG’s turn, 100 rounds later (50 FMJ & 50 RNL) and I’m pleased to say it worked flawlessly, no FTF, no FTE, no problems what so ever, as it worked perfectly. I am optimistic, but only more shooting will tell if this duel spring system is longer lasting. LM

Lightningman,
Any updates or range reports on how the P238 is functioning with the Kahr dual springs?
My gun is still at Sig Factory getting worked on. But if it doesn't function any better than the last time I got it back from the factory I think I will try the Kahr springs if you continue to report good reliability of your pistol. What model P238 do you have?
thom

 

[LightningMan]

Yes Ruger1228, I made it to the range today and after our club IDPA type of match (my first), I put 60 rds. through it as fast as I could load up the mag. I had no problems other than my thumb or something hit the mag reliease stopping the gun from cycling. This has happened before with the original spring, so I don't count it as a error on the guns part, just the operator. Later measuring the spring, I found no real difference, still about 2 1/8" from the last time out. So far it seems to work fine, but I'm still keeping my fingers crossed. LM
PS. I'm not sure of the model No. but it's all black, plastic grips, alloy frame, with night sights.

 

[ruger1228]

Update on my Sig P238 Equinox:
This pistol has been back to Sig twice for repairs. I just sent it back the second time on Aug 13.
Received an e-mail from Ray Carter, Sig Customer Service Rep, yesterday stating that they would be sending me a new Equinox. They were not able to repair the pistol I returned for warranty work for FTF, FTE, and continual stove piping.
New pistol will be shipped next week. I did clarify with him that my 3 magazines that I sent in with gun will be returned with the new pistol.

 

[kokapelli]

Update on my Sig P238 Equinox:
This pistol has been back to Sig twice for repairs. I just sent it back the second time on Aug 13.
Received an e-mail from Ray Carter, Sig Customer Service Rep, yesterday stating that they would be sending me a new Equinox. They were not able to repair the pistol I returned for warranty work for FTF, FTE, and continual stove piping.
New pistol will be shipped next week. I did clarify with him that my 3 magazines that I sent in with gun will be returned with the new pistol.

Can't ask for more than that.

 

[rellascout]

I do not understand why people keep apoligizing for Sigs poor execution with this gun. They are allowing the buying public to do their R&D. The reality is that this gun was built to meet a price point in the 380 auto market. Sig cut corners to meet that goal and make a profit.

IMHO having to replace a recoil spring after 400 rounds on a gun designed as a defensive carry handgun is not acceptable.