Of course all of the other brand mini 380s have been perfect!
I have close to 500 rounds through my P238 and haven't had to replace my recoil spring.
Changing to a different recoil spring in SIG-P238
- Thread starter LightningMan
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I have close to 500 rounds through my P238 and haven't had to replace my recoil spring.
rellascout
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Of course they have not been perfect but so many people seem to come to the defense of this poorly designed and manufactured gun than any other 380 auto IMHO.
joe_security
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M2 Carbine : Have you considered asking Sig to replace that pistol with one that actually works ? Considering what these things cost, I feel that you should recieve satisfaction, or your $$$ returned.
I completely disagree! IMO the P238 is heads and shoulders above all the rest of the true pocket 380s with the possible exception of the Kahr 380 which I have not shot yet.
I'm not defending the P238 because I have one, but because it is just plain and simply a better shooting gun then the rest.
I'm sorry that some people have had a problem with their P238s just as some have had a problem with LCPs, TCPs, etc but that doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of people that have nothing but good shooting with their P238s.
The Lone Haranguer
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Not a designer or engineer, but why not use the telescoping springs and guide rods pioneered by Seecamp and used on PM/MK series Kahrs and mini-Glocks? (I don't know what setup the Kahr P380 uses.) These are not much bigger than the little SIG yet fire full service cartridges. At the very least, a supply of spare recoil springs seems a good investment.
Seems like a good idea.
I did purchase a package of three extra recoil springs from Sig which I also have done for my other pocket 380 pistols because the springs generally need to be replace more frequently in these small pistols.
When I called to order the springs the person I talked to said that the springs had been updated and they expect them to last for 1000 to 1500 rounds.
He also said based on my serial number that my pistol already had the newer spring in it. We'll see.
rellascout
member
P238 is a lic Colt Copy with modifications. It sells for $475+ transfer if you know a good dealer.
The LCP is a sub $300 gun $250 again if you have a good dealer. The TCP is a Taurus. Enough said.
That IMHO is an apples to oranges comparision. At the $475 price point the Sig should be head and shoulders above the guns like the LCP and TCP.
If you do the research even people like Bruce Gray bash the P238. There are many people who love them and have had no issues and to them I give a big
but there are way too many people who have got $500+ lemons and are paying to be Sigs R&D. The recoil spring issue is a prime example. :banghead:P238 is a lic Colt Copy with modifications. It sells for $475+ transfer if you know a good dealer.
The LCP is a sub $300 gun $250 again if you have a good dealer. The TCP is a Taurus. Enough said.
That IMHO is an apples to oranges comparision. At the $475 price point the Sig should be head and shoulders above the guns like the LCP and TCP.
If you do the research even people like Bruce Gray bash the P238. There are many people who love them and have had no issues and to them I give a big
Ok I guess you just like bashing certain brands!
I also have a TCP that although not on the same level as the P238 it is a pretty good shooting gun and has been completely reliable.
I also have a Micro Desert Eagle and am interested to hear you opinions it.
rellascout
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Not really I call a spade a spade. Taurus builds some decent guns but they as a company IMHO hit or miss. They have spotty QC and sell a mass market volume based product. Their 1911s hit the market as all the rage but now reality has set in. They do well manufacturing other peoples designs but when it comes down to my $$$ they go other brands.
I used to be a big Sig fan. Have owned or currently most of the P series gun they make with the exception of the P210, P232 & P230. I have had a P220/P239/P229/P228/P225/Sig Pro/P250 etc... I am however disappointed with their current offering.
Micro Desert Eagles are a rebranded Kevin pistol from ZVI right... Honestly I have no opinion on them. If I was in the market for a pocket pistol I would get one of these.
Guns and more
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So the Sig is overpriced but the $1200 Rohrbach is a good buy?
I'm sure the Rohrbaugh is a fine gun but terrible to shoot. It's made to carry often and shoot rarely. Recoil is painful.
What makes the Sig 238 nice, is that it's actually fun to shoot at the range. Mild recoil, easy slide to rack, looks good, and mine has never had a glitch.
I guess I'm lucky, I hope Sig works out the bugs, 'cause the 238 is a perfect pocket pistol.
rellascout
member
No you are missing my point. For $500 the Sig should not be having the customer do the R&D. At $500 it should not be compared to a $250 Ruger and Taurus.
The Rohraugh is a pure defense pocket gun. It is not a range toy. It has its purpose and IMHO it does it better than most.
I personally shoot this baby when I want a fun shooting 380 auto.
LightningMan
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The Rohrbaugh is a fine pistol from what I have read, but again this little pistol has even a shorter recoil spring life than most any other gun out there, I've heard that 250 rds. (maybe less) is it, and it's time to change the spring. Correct me if I'm wrong but Rohrbaugh even sends an extra spring(s) when you buy one of their pocket-rockets. LM
Guns and more
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I'd be amazed if anyone shot a Rohrbaugh 250 rounds. Maybe 25.
M2 Carbine
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I'm working on it.
I haven't shot the gun in a few weeks but today I thought I'd run some more ammo through it and then call SIG again.
I shot about 60 rounds of mixed ammo. It jammed extracting/ejecting about every 2nd-3rd magazine.
I talked to a nice fellow at SIG, who said I need a new extractor.
I said I don't think so. I believe I know the problem and here's what's happening.
Upon extracting, the fired case base is hitting the top bullet in the magazine hard. The case then does one of three things.
The case is ejected from the gun.
The case pulls loose from the extractor and pops forward into the chamber.
Or the case is jammed half way out of the chamber by the top round in the magazine.
I told him I have pictures, including one of the bullets, that I took today.
He said he would appreciate seeing them, so I e-mailed them.
In this close up it can be seen that the extracting case and the top bullet in the magazine are smacking together pretty hard. Sometimes the edge of the case mouth also is hit hard by the extracting case but I didn't save any of those tobay.
I have an idea but I'll see what SIG says.
When you P238 owners are shooting, check the 2nd or 3rd chambered round bullet and see if it has dings like this, indicating it was hit by the preceding extracting/ejecting case.
.
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VERY bad first trip to the range with my BRAND new P238.
It shot the first box of 50 without any problems.
Had a succession of FTF's and one failure to lock back in the second box of 50. (different brand of ammo too)
The recoil spring was shorter than the new spring length after LESS than 100 rounds. The Smith at the shop/range I shot at swapped out my spring for a new one, but I didn't have a chance to shoot it after the swap.
I am quite depressed about the spring shortening after a presumed minimal amount of rounds through it.
HOWEVER... the gun shot pretty dang good for it's virgin trip. My accuracy was decent for the first session with a gun. It usually takes me several sessions to accustom to a trigger and grip. I hope my spring was a fluke and things go better on the next session. I really want this gun to work for me.
It shot the first box of 50 without any problems.
Had a succession of FTF's and one failure to lock back in the second box of 50. (different brand of ammo too)
The recoil spring was shorter than the new spring length after LESS than 100 rounds. The Smith at the shop/range I shot at swapped out my spring for a new one, but I didn't have a chance to shoot it after the swap.
I am quite depressed about the spring shortening after a presumed minimal amount of rounds through it.
HOWEVER... the gun shot pretty dang good for it's virgin trip. My accuracy was decent for the first session with a gun. It usually takes me several sessions to accustom to a trigger and grip. I hope my spring was a fluke and things go better on the next session. I really want this gun to work for me.
Unless something drastically changes in the 238's design, expecting a different result by repeating an action is somewhat unrealistic.
The failure to feed issues of the 238 and it's predecessors is legendary...be they made by Excam, FIE or Colt
Lonestar49
Member
...
+1 on the above statement
I totally agree,
Ls
I don't believe the P238 requires 400 round recoil spring replacement with the newer recoil springs that are supplied now.
I have 600 rounds on my original spring and it's working just fine. Casings are falling close to me which indicates the spring still has plenty of strength.
I agree that the manufacturers should spend more time testing before new models are released for sale, but it seems to be a common practice with most of the manufacturers.
I can't think of a single micro pocket pistol model that hasn't had it's problems with their early productions.
How many rounds between spring changes would you find acceptable? remember this is a defensive carry handgun, not a range toy.
I seem to remember, when Wilson was selling the ADP, that his recommendation for spring replacement was in that neighborhood.
This is why, there are very popular CCW guns that experienced folks don't recommend, because people don't want to keep up with spring replacements
AK103K
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When I called a couple of months back, SIG told me the replacement interval was 1000 rounds now, as opposed to the 1500 the manual states.
I had a little over 700 rounds through mine, and the spring strength was about the same all the way through, and pretty much equivalent to the 12# Wolff spring I tried while chasing that goose. The original spring never shrank or collapsed, and again, was the same length as the Wolff 12 pounder.
My gun always threw the emptys all over the place, and most, a LOT farther than you might think or expect.
I agree about the constant replacements. To much "book keeping" to stay on top of it, and the constant worry of when (and you know when that would be) it decides to act up.
I had a little over 700 rounds through mine, and the spring strength was about the same all the way through, and pretty much equivalent to the 12# Wolff spring I tried while chasing that goose. The original spring never shrank or collapsed, and again, was the same length as the Wolff 12 pounder.
My gun always threw the emptys all over the place, and most, a LOT farther than you might think or expect.
I agree about the constant replacements. To much "book keeping" to stay on top of it, and the constant worry of when (and you know when that would be) it decides to act up.
Well, I do know it should last greater than 100 rounds!
So, tell me about the Wolff 12# spring that is for the Colt Mustang. Is this one preferable to the 11# spring they make? If so, why? Where can I find one? Only found it on one place, and it was on back-order.
Thanks,
Mongo
So, tell me about the Wolff 12# spring that is for the Colt Mustang. Is this one preferable to the 11# spring they make? If so, why? Where can I find one? Only found it on one place, and it was on back-order.
Thanks,
Mongo
AK103K
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The 12# spring looked and acted pretty much identical to the factory spring. I saw no difference between the two.
The gun did not like the 11# spring and acted up even more as soon as it was installed.
I got both right from Wolff, and they sent them right out. I tried continually to get the factory replacements from SIG, and other places, but they were always "sold out". If youre having trouble getting them from Wolff, maybe thats why.
The gun did not like the 11# spring and acted up even more as soon as it was installed.
I got both right from Wolff, and they sent them right out. I tried continually to get the factory replacements from SIG, and other places, but they were always "sold out". If youre having trouble getting them from Wolff, maybe thats why.
AK103K
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Since youre within a few boxes of the suggested replacement interval, have you decided at what round count it would be prudent to do a spring swap?
Assuming youre using the gun as intended, do you do it at 1000? Do it sooner, since 1000 is the "limit", or is 1000 a "mid point" and you can drag it out a little more? Or do you wait until you start experiencing failures and then do that a few more times, and decide on a number ?
My problem with the short count spring set ups is, for the most part I shoot what I carry on a weekly basis, and that round count to me, is a "small" number. I'd be swapping springs at a rate of about once a month or so, just to be comfortable with that issue.
I do find interesting though, the only guns I've ever had the issue with, have been "short" 1911 type guns. All the other guns of similar size I've owned, have never been an issue, and most of those dont even bring up the spring change issue.
Assuming youre using the gun as intended, do you do it at 1000? Do it sooner, since 1000 is the "limit", or is 1000 a "mid point" and you can drag it out a little more? Or do you wait until you start experiencing failures and then do that a few more times, and decide on a number ?
My problem with the short count spring set ups is, for the most part I shoot what I carry on a weekly basis, and that round count to me, is a "small" number. I'd be swapping springs at a rate of about once a month or so, just to be comfortable with that issue.
I do find interesting though, the only guns I've ever had the issue with, have been "short" 1911 type guns. All the other guns of similar size I've owned, have never been an issue, and most of those dont even bring up the spring change issue.
You're making a mountain out of a mole-hill.
You would have to keep track of the round count on your full sized pistols in order to know when to replace the recoil springs so what's the difference between that and keeping the count on your micro pistols.
Since I usually put a lot more rounds through my full sized pistols at a session, time wise I will not replace the springs in my pocket pistols any more frequently than I do with my full sized pistols.
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