Charles Daly Wants to Hear From You!

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jusTce: I was waiting for your post on one of these boards. I knew it was only a matter of time. Why don't you tell the members of THR the whole story?

Perhaps I will just tell my version of events and you can decide whether or not you wish to respond.

Another member of THR alerted me to the fact that a website was using one of our copyrighted pics on their website, without our approval. This site, cz999.org, is a site dedicated to the Zastava pistols CZ99 and CZ999. The CZ 999 is the same pistol that Charles Daly imported into the US as the ZDA. We have a very nice picture of this pistol on our website and cz999.org took this photo from our site, used it on their home page, and the only thing they changed was to airbrush out the Charles Daly mark on the side of the slide.

I contacted the owner of the site and informed him that he was using our copyrighted material without our approval and I requested that he immediately remove the offending photograph. I also offered him the option of keeping the picture but that he would have to negotiate a licensing fee.

Like what happens when most children that get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, I got a defensive reply similar to jusTce's post, trying to somehow make it my fault that he got caught using (stealing) our intellectual property rights. He began his rant about unanswered emails (entirely possible), then chastised me that because he owned 3 ZDA pistols, shame on me for not "allowing" him to use the purloined photograph, and really, since we don't sell the pistols anymore, where's the harm.

You can read the rest of the rant. I'm not going to address each of the issues he raises, for what he is doing is blowing smoke to cover his own unethical and illegal behavior. Your statement, "A single JPEG picture of a product that you are not even carrying anymore. That inspired you to write to me; not any of my failed attempts to contact you for service that you promised." If I never received your emails or a phone call from you, how could I possibly have known of your "failed" attempts to contact me? Convoluted thinking indeed!

If he wasn't getting his emails answered did he ever think to pick up the telephone and call our toll-free number? No mention there of unanswered phone calls. Hmmm.

Comparing our service department to EAA? We all should get a good chuckle out of that one!

Sir, you stole our intellectual property without permission and now whine with some make believe stories to cover your illegal acts and, what, hope the board here agrees with you? Is it your intent to slander us since you didn't get away with your theft? Is one jpeg not a theft because it was only one? Or would you have had to steal 10 jpegs to make it a crime?

Please sir, you do us both a favor if you never buy my products again.

Just be careful that the next company you steal copyrighted material from is not as forgiving as we are. We only requested it's removal, not compensation for your use of the photo for the past year.

Sincerely,
 
Wow! After swindling me out of my money for your product + service you are the one talking about a lawsuit. You are incredible. You should be grateful that someone even mentions the name of your company.

How many people should get swindled out of your service before it becomes a crime?

You knew it was a matter of time because you were reading posts of people that spit all over you and your company's image. In one of them I said I'll let people know EXACTLY who you and your company are.

Shame on you for even asking for more money after what you stole for an alleged 'customer service'! After number of tries to contact your company for a promised service an email I get from you guys is about a photo?!? What about the money I (and many others) paid for your services and never got them.

Unethical? You are the one that shines people on about the 'lifetime service'. You even dare to ask for money for a JPG file after screwing me over for the money I paid you for your product + 'lifetime service'?!?

Warranty registration is something I handled in my spare time. In my spare time your web site was the only option. Should I have taken out an ad in New York Times to get you guys to respond even once?

If you were any kind of a company you would make sure services you offered were good. But your web site reflects your customer service: it does not work.

You don't want me buying your products?!? Are you kidding me? Have you read my post?

I'm sure when people read my post they will understand that when one forks over close to $1400 and does not get what he paid for is reasonably upset.

For those reading the post, ask yourself if you paid $1400 for product & service and only got the product, what would you feel.

I have tried both EAA and your service. I got one from EAA and got none from you. I am a consumer with no vested interest in either EAA or CD. If you are mocking EAA service, then people can only imagine how bad your service (or lack thereof) is.

Bottom line is that in my experience if you buy CD - you are on your own. Maybe few people on a discussion board here and there might get something from you. You've got to score points with at least someone, somewhere. Right?
 
jusTce,

I have no dog in this fight....but I dont see how the two issues (jpg theft / lack of service) have anything to do with each other. Nor do they cancel each other out.

If he didnt provide service, that doesnt give you any right to steal his images. It gives you a right to call, complain, post messages to that effect...in general make your voice heard....but it doesnt open the door for you to take his property.

They are seperate issues....I see no reason for you to make them anything other than that.

The "but you didnt provide service" argument is not a valid one when committing theft.

Just my point of view.

For the record, Im not a fan of CD products.....and dont see myself buying one either. Ive been turned off by the reports of bad customer service. Im not quick to forget them based merely on this post and some damage control by the president, maybe in a year or two time I will revisit CD products to check on customer service.

....but I wont be stealing any of their images.
 
Hi aaronkelly!

Good point. I believe that explanation is in order. I have focused on his service and keeping this topic on subject, but since Mr. Kassnar had changed topics, and brought a JPG file (that used to be on the main page of the site before) in question, an explanation is in order.

Prior to opening the site I have emailed CD with questions regarding that product. In the same email I have asked to use that one image in question. I have asked and got no reply about the product or image (if you read the text you will see in one section that I mentioned contacting CD and getting no reply).

There was one image of his that I have used. The rest are either manufacturer's pictures or visitors' contributions with credit to each contributor. His company was GIVEN CREDIT for the picture in the section with credit to other people who contributed. I have used the image but did not pass it as my own. CD was given credit for it. While that picture was there his company had a credit listed for it.

Please look at the site. Every part of the site has a credit to a different contributor for material that was not mine. Image gallery has "Thank you" to each contributor, one entire section was a contribution of one of site's visitors and that is on the main page and in the credits. There is a section with notes on where did the material come from as well with credit to contributors. It has been there since day one. CD president is trying to put up a smoke screen and cover up what his company has done by changing the topic.

Again, please look at the site. There are plenty of credits to everyone who contributed. I have given credit even when I was asked not to. There was no theft of any kind.

I am neither justifying using that image as I don't feel any justification is needed. I have asked. I got no reply. I used it and gave credit to his company. When asked to take it down I apologized and complied. I got no monetary gains (as site is just a hobby site, with no ads - just expenses which I cover myself). And his company got mentions (minus the bad customer service). That's bigger than any credit I have given his company.

What I am saying is that after number of emails and attempts to reach his company for promised support and some 9 months since the last one the email I get is about an image. That's sad.

If he had checked his inbox more often he would have found my emails. A simple "no" would have been sufficient. But no e-mails I had sent through his site had ever been replied to.

Actually... my bad... when CD first started carrying the gun I have contacted the company to get some info and at that time they did reply. But that was over a year before I bought the first gun. So, I guess some credit for 'customer service' is in order.

I hope aaronkelly that this clarifies things a bit. If not, please feel free to ask.


Back to topic...

The good customer service rep and the president would have responded to a post with an offer to register the warranty himself. He would have been more believable as a caring CEO had he done something like that. Instead he attacks the customer - or a former customer.

The truth is that I really don't need his warranty. After seeing sad affairs of so-called customer support I have learned to take the gun apart myself and analyze its inner workings. I can replace anything I want in it. And I apparently know more about fixing it (or analyzing the problem) to find solution than his armorers since I found a fix for what they returned to another owner with a note that they could not find anything wrong with it.
Only issue are the spare parts. As his company and Zastava are no longer in business, even in his own words parts are hard to come by for CD. I guess EAA is the only source of spare parts and even they don't have them yet. Well, I can always cannibalize one of the guns if it comes to that, but the trigger bar was the only issue and 5 minutes' work corrected the issue.
 
I have no dog in the fight, either, as I've never been a fan of the Charles Daly brand, and am not in the market for any product they offer or are likely to offer soon.

But it strikes me as odd that one would buy three different products from the same company even with such poor service or communication. Unless all three were purchased at one time, it just smacks of dishonesty.

Anyway, since I posted, let me also say to Mr. Kassner that I hope you get what you're after from this thread. I, and many others, have been reading and considering your statements and interest in our collected opinions. I hope that this is the start of a more direct collaboration between your top brains and the public they wish to serve.
 
I also hope that he gets that and that CD will actually change their course and that Mr. Kassnar is being sincere, but his way of handling an issue with a dissatisfied (former) customer does not support that premise.

I believe, NPLANT, that you've been a bit too quick to pin the "dishonesty" tag on me. The three products I bought were:
1. Zastava CZ 999 (CD ZDA) serial 103??,
2. Zastava CZ 999 (CD ZDA) serial 104?? and
3. Zastava CZ 999 (CD ZDA) serial 105??.

They don't differ except the serial numbers and they were purchased at different times. Except for "Charles Daly" markings on them, they have nothing to do with CD - CD just brought them to the States.

I was after the gun. I just love it.. I wanted to have a gun from CZ 99 family for years and CD was the one who carried it at the time I was in a position to purchase one. I have since bought an original Zastava CZ 99 (1991 vintage), and two EAA EZ9 (CZ 05). I am planning to get two more EZ9s soon!

Anyway, I would have bought the gun despite whose tag was on it. Have you ever wanted a specific brand of gun badly? I'm pretty sure that everyone that comes here has had a model of firearm she/he wanted to have despite everything. I would have bought it even if it came w/o warranty - but CD's word was that there was a lifetime one. And I expected that I would be able to get that.

Even if EAA handled my warranty claim unprofessionally (but they didn't - they sent me a brand new gun when they couldn't fix the old one) I would buy the extra two guns I am planning to buy in a week or two. But I would not be generous toward them and if EAA president had asked for public's opinion he would have heard the same comments...

I hope this explains things a little better.
 
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jusTce: You have made 3 additional rants since my last post. I will comment on all of them and then I will comment no more.

Post #278: Now you accuse us of "swindling" you out of your money. And you add that we are the ones talking about a "lawsuit". We have swindled no one sir and if you continue to slander our company then a lawsuit will be forthcoming against you for such libel and slander. I do not take kindly to being accused of swindling someone. Then you state that we "stole" your money for an "alleged" customer service.

Does one of your guns require service? Have you ever picked up the telephone to call our company? Just because you were unable to register your warranty online or you did not get an email returned then we have somehow "swindled" or "stole" from you.

You doth protest too much sir. You try to combine the two issues of your theft of our intellectual property with your purchase of Charles Daly brand firearms. They are not the same issue no matter how many times you repeat your claims.

We pride ourselves on our service policy. The reason I am here on this forum is to help restore confidence in that policy for those that feel they were not the recipients of good service in the past and to make sure that any future service issues are dealt with in a correct, professional and timely manner.

Post #280 to aaronkelly: Again you mistake the act of giving "credit" for a photograph into a lawful use of that photograph. Our copyright is clearly displayed on our website for all to see. The alleged fact that you tried to contact our company does not make your use of it legal. Interestingly, if you were so principled in your use of our photography, why did you find the need to photoshop "Charles Daly" out of the picture?

Again, did you ever telephone our company? I am very approachable as many here and elsewhere will attest.

Sir, if you want your warranty registered, feel free to PM me with your complete name and address and the full serial numbers of your guns. I will make sure those warranties are registered. FYI, your warranty does not need to be registered for it to be valid. That is Federal law. Proof of retail purchase is all that is necessary to validate your warranty. Also, we service many firearms of ours that were purchased long before our Lifetime Repair Policy was instituted in September of 2001. We do this as a courtesy to our consumers even though legally we certainly would not be required to do so.

Post #283: CD is on the right course. We could not possibly have known that you were a dissatisfied consumer when I contacted you about your unauthorized use of our intellectual property. Again, these are two separate issues.

CD did more than "...just brought them to the states." Our ZDA is different from all other permutations of Zastava's CZ999. Had you bothered to pick up the phone and call our toll free number, you might have actually learned something about these pistols.

Sir, you have explained things a little better on your frame of mind to all who read this thread. I hope I have explained our postion clearly to all as well.

This man, jusTce, used our property without our permission, photoshopped our name out of the unlawfully used property, got caught in the act and then screams some convoluted story that his purported lack of obtaining customer service makes us into the swindler and thief.

I will leave it to members of THR to sort through these stories for themselves. I believe that what happened here is clear and no further comment from me is needed on this subject.

For some reason, I don't think I'll be receiving a PM from jusTce with his full name and address.
 
Desire for a particular product or not, it seems ludicrous at this point, when the president of the company is offering to make right any mistakes they've made. As near as I can tell, you've just spent more time writing a small collection of diatribes against Charles Daly, than you could have spent simply correcting the issue with a phone call or a (snail-mailed) letter. If you learned your lesson about the copyright infringement, just man up and say you're sorry, and move on like an adult, register your products (if you choose to), and then see about getting your gun serviced. This would be the High Road way, anyway.

Seems pretty simple to me, unless there's some other angle that you're trying, which is why I say it smacks of dishonesty. I certainly wasn't trying to imply that you are an inherently dishonest person. If you're truly angry enough to hold such a grudge, I don't see how Charles Daly could rightly service you as a customer anyway.
 
Michael: Is there a reason you want my name and address? It's really not a secret. Do you want it?
Even better: we'll trade home addresses! I can give you my phone number as well. Sorry I'm unavailable until 7-8 at night, but weekends I can talk all day long. Just shoot me an e-mail with your home address! One with mine will follow shortly.
Sorry, but PMs are visible to admins and while I don't mind giving my address to you, I do mind leaving it on a discussion board. Shoot me an e-mail!

Slander is a made up statement... What I wrote was my opinion of your service based on my dealings (or attempts at it) with your company - nothing was made up. You wanted to hear people's opinion. Having purchased your product does make me a customer.

Your brochure that came with the gun states that warranty has to be registered within 30 days. I don't know what the Federal law is. If you put that in your brochure I would not even care about your non-working online registration form. I have my receipt. But after the time specified had passed (30 days) and I wasn't able to register it online (your site does or did offer that service) I figured there was not much use trying to contact you via email and as I said I normally can't spare time on the phone until it's 7-8 if not later at night.

Why didn't you answer any of my emails? That was my preferred (and at the time only realistically possible) method of communication. Form is on your site. I see you have Internet connection. I have asked to use that image in my email. I even gave you guys credit for it. If you said "no" in your email to me a year ago when I asked you in my email to you, that would have been fine. I wouldn't put it up in the first place. But you didn't even bother answering my e-mails.

I have asked you (as you could read on my site) questions about the specific differences. No reply.

That is not a remark befitting a president on "education". You had your chance to "educate" me on the differences. Allow me to return the favor: If you need education in Active Server Pages and database engineering, do feel free to ask. You might even learn something and your online forms would work fine for a change!
Also if another ZDA comes in with a 'click' in the trigger before hammer release and your armorers are stuck, let me know. I'll teach them how to fix it. Problem can be fixed in a few minutes. Hint: it's the connector.



Ok... now that backstabbing and sarcasm is out of the way on both sides maybe we can even communicate like people: I did need service. But after failing to register my warranty and no returned e-mails (sorry, but phone communication at that time was not possible on my end) I felt I was on my own. So, I took care of the problem. However that leaves me with a "fixed" connector (part #12) and not a new working one. So IF I still have service with you maybe I can get a replacement connector (or a trigger bar as I call it) from you. I'll even pay for your shipping costs of that connector! Just as long as I get it.


Oh, I almost forgot... your picture is nice! The reason I 'photo-shopped' it is the same reason I butchered a pic of my CZ 99 to make it look like a 999 in my logo (I added that extra "9")! I wanted something with 999 on it :) No offense to your logo or the company.


You know... all this could have been avoided if your email to me had started with
"you state on your site that you contacted Charles Daly and no one replied to you... please feel free to ask"
Click to expand...
and ended with
Also, we see that you have taken a photograph of the Charles Daly ZDA... please remove it.
Click to expand...
Then you would have come off as a professional CEO and I would have apologized sincerely to you (like I did in my reply to you) and ended it at that. Maybe we could have even had a great open dialog as two firearms enthusiasts.

I hope you can see that when you word it the other way around given the number of failed attempts at contacting you, you do come of as someone you are probably not and I did have a good reason to be pissed.
 
nplant

I'm sorry but you posted your reply while I was typing up mine. He did not offer any such services in his email to me sent 2 days before I found out about this post.

I did most sincerely apologize for offending CD by using that picture. Michael, correct me if I'm wrong.
I am not playing an angle. I hope you can put yourself in my shoes. To Michael, a JPG is a big deal. To me a "lifetime warranty" for a total of some $1400 worth of products is a big deal.


Let me copy-paste the end of my previous post...

all this could have been avoided if your email to me had started with

"you state on your site that you contacted Charles Daly and no one replied to you... please feel free to ask"
Click to expand...

and ended with

Also, we see that you have taken a photograph of the Charles Daly ZDA... please remove it.
Click to expand...

Then you would have come off as a professional CEO and I would have apologized sincerely to you (like I did in my reply to you) and ended it at that. Maybe we could have even had a great open dialog as two firearms enthusiasts.

I hope you can see that when you word it the other way around given the number of failed attempts at contacting you, you do come of as someone you are probably not and I did have a good reason to be pissed.
Click to expand...
 
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I personally am more interested in hearing about any new offerings Charles Daly will be bringing to market in the future, rather than past products. Perhaps we can get back on that track and you can take your issue to PMs or emails. That would be my suggestion at this point, moving the thread back on topic.

So how about those 1911s...

:D

You know a Bul in .38 Super, 9x23 or 10mm would be a lot of fun. It could take on the Witness and Glock 20 head-to-head, but with the features of a 1911 in a thin and light polymer frame. The Bul is amazingly thin and carryable for a double-stack 1911.

John
 
jusTice:

Are you aware of the cost of professional catalog photographs?

They can easily top several hundred dollars per image.

The person who caught you stealing pictures does not have to kiss your backside to avoid hurting your feelings.

Mr Kassnar is here to improve the service his company offers. He has offered to fix any problems you have with your firearms. If you would like to complain about how you got caught stealing photos please start a new thread and leave this one to those with warranty and service concerns.




Mr. Kassnar

I would love to see a .45 ACP carbine. Detachable mags would be nice, but not required.
 
I don't believe I was talking to you BigFunWMU. But since you asked:
Funny... now that I think about it, my guns cost money too! And guess what: they did top several hundred dollars apiece. I am on topic: I complained about the series of shortcomings in customer service in my specific case. You CAN read?

I wasn't looking for a kiss in the backside. Just an offer to make things right. He knew about the issue for several days before I posted here. I got no offers.

"Caught me"? He had that message in his Inbox (or somebody at his company did)! Do try and read the whole post... it won't hurt your eyes. I never concealed anything and even emailed his company. There was a note to that effect that the picture was a CD pic.
 
Prior to opening the site I have emailed CD with questions regarding that product. In the same email I have asked to use that one image in question. I have asked and got no reply about the product or image (if you read the text you will see in one section that I mentioned contacting CD and getting no reply).

There was one image of his that I have used. The rest are either manufacturer's pictures or visitors' contributions with credit to each contributor. His company was GIVEN CREDIT for the picture in the section with credit to other people who contributed. I have used the image but did not pass it as my own. CD was given credit for it. While that picture was there his company had a credit listed for it.
Click to expand...


If I e-mailed you and asked if I could borrow your car and then take because "I got no reply?" No matter how much credit I gave you it would still be grand theft auto. Taking/using without permission is still stealing, even if you asked.

I tend to agree with you over the warranty issue, but that doesn't have anything to do with the picture. What ever happened with the warranty in the past is in the past. Mr. Kassnar seems sincere in his attempt to right past customer service wrongs. Maybe he is blowing smoke, maybe not. If CD won't correct the problem now, come back here and rant away. Atleast give them a chance.

Oakville Shooter
 
Grayrider (John): Thanks for your post. We will be meeting with Bul at the upcoming SHOT Show and will certainly discuss your request.

Having said that, we've been trying to bring their .40S&W and 9mm's to market for a couple of years now and those will have to come first before we can try for some additional calibers. I think the .38 super and the 10mm have some merit.

Is there a market in the US for 9X23?
 
Mr. Kassnar,
Again, great to have you here!

I don't think there is much demand for 9X23 but that may just be me. I would like to see more 10mm or 7.62-25 stuff, but that's just me. Or, a 9mm carbine that takes common mags.

JusTce,
I may have sided with you at one point (due to your claims of poor service) but if your intent is to show up on this site only to blast a man who is trying to do right then please go elsewhere.

You took property that was not yours. That is theft, pretty simple issue in my mind.

I have PM'ed Mr. Kassnar and quickly got back a professional answer.

After his exchange here I only wish that my local shop had one of his products in it right now!
 
Or, a 9mm carbine that takes common mags.
Click to expand...

+1 on that I bought a little Hi-Point 9mm carbine for my wife to learn to shoot and I happen to really enjoy the little gun. (as does my wife, my sons, my nephews, etc) the two gripes are of course it is UGLY and is limited to the 10 round mag. Come up with a reasonably priced ($350 or less), carbine with a modular double stack mag system (that can be modified to accept the mags of the major handgun players), in the 3 major semi handgun cals, that isn't ugly as sin (both Keltek and HP are UGLY) or feels like a brick (the ruger), and you will sell A LOT of them. If you come up with one you can put me down for 2 or 3 myself.
 
:cool:

I personally could not care less about the current dogfight in progress.

I have been following this thread since its inception based upon the fact that it was initiated by a firearms company executive and I found that to be a novel and interesting concept. The ensuing discussions have kept my interest and even caused me to consider a CD piece as a potential purchase the next time I feel the urge for a new gun. I've certainly experimented enough with other gambles. Some good, some dreadful

Again - the dogfight, please take it out to the alley. It degrades an otherwise informative and interesting thread. Point and counterpoint have been made several times. Enough, please.
 
Mr Kassnar, thank you for coming to THR. I am extremely impressed by your attitude and willingness to talk reasonably.

I had questions in my mind about CD's quality and service due to rumors. I am now willing to consider CD for my next purchase (It's going to be a while unfortunetly :( )

I realy am impressed and like the way you have responded appropiately to a wide variety of posts.

I hope you will continue to come to THR, most of us are extremely glad you are here.

NukemJim
 
Mr. Kassner, It is truly great to hear from and communicate to one in a position of power in the firearms industry! I personally frequent many forums online and yours is the first post of it's kind that I have seen. I own one of your 12 ga. Field semi-autos and love it so far.It fits me better than any other I have put to my shoulder,and handles any load I feed it.Can't beat that! Thanks for being here. leadburner
 
Wow, I've come late to this party (12 pages)- I guess that's what happens when you take a break from the forum for a few weeks.

I'm glad to see you here and that you are revamping your CS department. I wish a few others would follow suit (Taurus, are you paying attention?).

As for the original question, I have not had any dealings with Charles Daly customer service, but I wanted to post my experience with CD firearms.

I bought a Charles Daly 1911 around fall 2001. It was the older version (built before the "Enhanced" models people were talking about on the net around that time) with the military style sights and black plastic grips. Supposedly, right after this gun, CD improved the quality of the gun.

I have put well over 10K rounds through it with nothing but spring changes and replacing a couple magazines. While it hasn't been 100% (few guns would go 10K+ rounds without some malfunctions) it has been a good gun. The kind of issues it has had (mainly not always staying open after firing the last round and not always feeding the first round without some coaxing): 1) are usually fixed quite easily, they just mean I need new springs, and 2) don't affect my confidence in the gun- if I have to play with the slide a little to get it to go into battery initially but it doesn't have any issues while firing I can be confident it will go bang when I need it to. Anyway, usually the problems are addressed with new springs, I'd expect some problems now and again in 10K rounds, and usually it functions just fine. With the number of rounds it does rattle a bit and it seems a bit loose, yet it is still one of my 3 or 4 most accurate handguns (I have quite a few handguns including several big names including 2 from SIG, a CZ, a S&W 1911SC and some very nice revolvers). When it has new springs in it I do trust it to occasionally load it up as my home defense pistol.

In other words, considering what I paid for this gun I am very pleased. The improved customer service means that I can be even more confident when I recommend the gun to others and I will probably be picking up one of your O/U shotguns within the year.

Really the only thing approaching a criticism is that considering how big customization is in the 1911 market, you should probably get rid of the policy that any non-factory parts and aftermarket work voids the warranty. Even if it stays the official policy to weed out problems caused by kitchen table smiths, generally it shouldn't be enforced unless it is clear the problems come from the aftermarket work.
 
Dear Charles Daly,
I own a RIA 1911 that has been an absolute pleasure since day 1. I bought it used at a gunshow & because of that I never got a user manual or a box W/it. I wonder if it would be possible to get those items or at least the manual? It would certainly be appreciated.
Thanks,
Treo
 
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