"Cheap" shotguns

[Slater]

On another board a comment was made that if all you're too poor to affored anything other than a cheap 870 Express, Mossy 500, or Winchester 1300 then you need to reconsider shooting as a pastime.

I dunno. Always liked my white trash 870 Express

 

[Spinner]

I've just recently been told that I needed a $3000 gun for trap and another $3000 gun for skeet and sporting clay ..... and they were "entry level" guns ... only just considered suitable for the sports.

I'll continue to use my cheap shotguns thanks. If anyone complains I'll be inviting them to stand on top of the trap house with a target on their butt and see if my guns are any less effective than a Browning, Beretta or Kreighoff.

Spinner

 

[Moparmike]

Warning: Crappy pic ahead

Funny, my $160 out the door Legacy Escort Aimguard does me just fine...

And in the hands of someone that can actually shoot skeet, does a fairly ok job of it...

 

[sm]

There is a difference b/t "cheap" ,"less expensive" ,"value for monies" , "poorly made with inferior materials and workmanship".

It is ALWAYS the shooter - not the shooting iron.

Granted some guns when fit to a shooter - for specific task does give one an edge. The gun fits the shooter and task - better. Skill and targets are earned - not bought.

I happen to know one of the Senior World Champs....Used a model 42 and run 150 straight one day. Dressed in jeans, borrowed my shell pouch...and shells....and the Newbie that looked like MR.Skeet with his tricked out Beretta couldn't hit squat - with a 20 ga. to boot.

We never told the newbie who the "old fart" was....he found out the next week during the State Tourney. In the tourney This friend of mine did use his custom Kreigoff... [ Probably more to make the wifey happy since she bought it for him] .

Boy did the newbie climb down off his ego when "old fart" took the Senior World Championship later on....

This is the guy that will show up with a model 12 or 1100 - to piddle and to get out doing yardwork....

On fun shoots running a pump gun only , and a pump gun only for doubles....don't matter....Model 12, Ithaca 37, 870 ....just give 'em a gun and watch him paint them out of the sky...

Since these "old guns" won't work and "hold up" ....he, myself and another will use his Model 12 in 20 ga....on the same squad ....that is a fast 300 rds, 600 when adding doubles - in one day -for and "antiquated" gun.

Me - tacky ....not me...

 

[TrapperReady]

Snobbery abounds in every sport. Shotgunners are not immune to the disease.

Say you had $1500 burning a hole in your pocket and wanted to get shooting. There's a lot of ways to get started. One way would be to get a decent "entry level" O/U, which would run about $1100-$1200. That would leave a few hundred bucks for range fees and ammo (assuming that the remainder wasn't spent on additional gear).

Another option would be to pick up a used 870 for around $200, and then spend $1300 on range fees and ammo.

Which would be likely to make someone a better shooter?

Shotguns are funny things. It all boils down to a tube which can fire a shotshell. For clay shooting, it's part target-gun, part area-effect weapon. As long as you can find a shell that patterns well in your gun, and the gun fits you correctly, then you can shoot as well as your ability and training will allow.

Most high-volume (high-price) target guns are specifically made to be extremely durable. Well, guess what? So is a "cheap" 870 Express.

Now, for my Devils Advocate comment...

Not having seen the original post, I suppose it's possible that the intent of the person making the comment was to point out that shooting shotguns a lot is an expensive endeavour. Believe me... I've got a bunch of money into shotguns, and even so, I have far and away spent more money on ammo, reloading supplies, range fees, travel, gear, blah, blah, blah... than on the guns.

There was a point in my life when $200 was a small fortune (either a roof over my head for another month, or food on the table). It's no coincidence that I didn't start shooting seriously until those days were gone.

 

[kudu]

Hmmm, it seems that just this past weekend I took my old 97 Winchester with the polychoke on the end to the skeet range "the old boat anchor" as I lovingly refer to it. I shot 2 rounds with some newer shooters that didn't know me. I had just got of work and had jeans on and a work shirt, so I looked like average joe off the street.

These boys had their nice O/U's and custom shell vests and the whole set up. They see my old pump and say "Oh a pump gun". Later I hear "damn, I can't even see doubles as fast as he shoots them". Two 24's later, which were the high guns on each round, they find out I'm a regular just out playin' from some other members. Then I hear "Just playin', how's he shoot when he's serious."

The great thing was I had the old polychoke turned up to about modified and the clays were powdered with very few "pieces".

 

[Dave McCracken]

About 3.5 years ago I decided to get into clays shooting. After a brief flirtation with an O/U, I bought my 870 TB for a number of reasons. 14K rounds later, my decision has proven sound.

First, I've used 870s since the 50s with little to no probs.

Second, I know 870s last incredibly despite neglect. Working life seems to run about 250K rounds.

Third, I hit with them as well as other shotguns.

I'm no super shooter, but I've been high gun on squads uncountable times over folks with high dollar guns.

And few folks I shoot with find pumpguns egregious, many folks with the fine and fancy O/Us can oft be found shooting a round with a pump for old times sake or to sharpen up before hunting season.

And like TR says, the price of a good used O/U equals a good used 870 plus lots of ammo, range fees and maybe a session or seminar with a great teacher.

 

[PJR]

There are equipment snobs in every sport and they are best ignored.

Not all that long ago, I was shooting skeet with a new member at our club. The entire squad was shooting pretty high end o/us. On the adjacent skeet field were some of the IDPA boys who occasionally drift over to shoot clays. They were a tactical wet dream in their black fatigues, shell belts, mirrored glasses and short barreled guns.

The new member immediately noted them and forcefully expressed the opinion that not only should their dress not be allowed on the fields their guns had no place in clay target shooting and should be banned entirely.

One of the club exec was also on our squad. This man defines the term crusty and was shooting a magnificent high-grade Perazzi. He immediately told the new member in very blunt terms that he was in charge of clay targets, that the guns in question were legal, were being used safely and that they had paid the same price for the targets that he had.

The discussion about what was appropriate and what wasn't ended instantly while the rest of us broke out in huge grins. We might all have been shooting o/us that day but each one owns a variety of guns including those some fuss budgets might not think are "politically correct."

Paul

 

[Dave McCracken]

I shot a round of trap doubles this AM with the Geezer League. About 7 of us showed, and the weapons included two Model 21s, some O/Us, my TB and a much used Model 12 trap. The guy with the 12 was high gun. I ran about 4th.

BTW, short barreled "Serious" shotguns and their owners oft do quite well at skeet. Same with quail hunting.

I know a few super shooters, folks in or nearly in Halls of Fame. The general consensus is, "It ain't the gun".

Rudy Etchen, who attended the Grand National over eight decades and won over six , used a variety of shotguns. His favorite, and the one he set many records with (like 500 consecutive trap targets,100 straight in doubles) was an 870. He owned fancy guns, shot them also, but the 870 was his goto.

ATA HOF shooter Arnold Reiger used a cheapo Model 37 Winchester single shot that was taped at the grip.

 

[TaxPhd]

Guess I ought to run out and sell my 682 Gold and BT-99. No, wait. I'll keep the BT, as it is cheap enough.

 

[sm]

Tax PhD

Nah...don't sell 'em, just stick some duct tape and bailing wire on 'em and shoot 'em.

Being serious -

[climbs onto soapbox]

Over the years with new shooters , in this case new shotgunner I've heard the same thing I hear now with the Internet ...

I see a lot of new folks getting into shotgunning. I have a number of folks I communicate with off the forum, PM or Email. If you wonder where some folks are getting bad advice that frequent this forum - now you know.

The common "concern " I hear is " If I don't shoot "this" brand/ make/ model/ gauge/ stock material/ sight set up/ spend a certain amount of money/....etc., I get berated on the THR Shotgun Forum. I heard similar " they will make fun of me at the range". locally.

Folks - we are Ambassadors, we are supposed to lead by example. We have folks still in school from Grade school to Graduate Programs. We have folks with Student loans, a new wife , a new baby , the Single Mom or Dad raising kids. We have folks putting kids through school ....

The way I see It - we all feel strongly about 2A around here. Folks have a right to learn to shoot, be it for sport, fun, quality family time, training for personal defense [ yes I believe clay games do provide benefits for defense use] .

I also know that with the Internet , we have folks from all over the world that frequent here. They have resrictions on fireams , ammo and such. They cannot get the same guns and ammo we folks in the US can.

Heck - I just learned that the price is prohibitive for one fellow to reload, the components are so expensive due to Gov't taxes, import restrictions and such.
This fellow has a Win 1400, I have experience with these, it happens to be legal in his country, my suggestion was to find the BEST load that patterned in that 1400/ and reliable. So he uses shells - the hulls that are not re-loadable , he can at least get a lot more shooting for the money than buying a brand name shell that he cannot reload due to restictions on powder and primers... and not cost effective if he did.

It is the shooter - not the firearm. Hopefully at some point in time the money / time situation gets better for everyone. The kids "finally" leave home, "finally" get out of school. Hopefully the political climate improves...allowing folks outside the US to enjoy more freedoms - including firearm and ammo choices.

This is akin to another burr I get. On the RKBA stuff...."why should I care about CCW, AWB, ...etc ., They won't come after my skeet, trap, sporing clay, bird gun, duck gun....

Lets don't forget - we NEVER know whom is watching and listening. Be it the new shooter , or the Politicians. As Ambassadors we have a responsibility, to ourselves first - then to our fellow shooters. No matter what they shoot - what they own.

[ climbs off soap box]

 

[Dave McCracken]

Well said, sm. I don't care what other shooters use as long as they use it safely and effectively.

Obviously, I shoot with some folks who use high dollar shotguns. Others use stuff with JC Higgins or Western Field on it. Few of either group have told me I should use X shotgun instead of an 870. Some of either have outshot me and will again.