Checking handgun as luggage

[Ironhorse522]

I know in both the states of ohio and texas it's legal to possess a handgun as long as your over the age of 18. But is it legal for me to have it as checked baggage on a southwestern airlines flight? I already have a TSA approved case with 2 study locks. I'm just wondering if it's okay to check it if I'm not 21?

 

[SMMAssociates]

Ironhorse:

Generally, if you're legal (to possess) at both ends of the trip, you're fine. Just hit Southwest's web site and the TSA's, and print out their regs.

DO NOT put a TSA lock on the gun case, or a combination lock. Either one sort of says "steal me".... I prefer a TSA lock on the outer case (hard or soft - doesn't matter), because it may be opened, and if they can't find me, so much for the lock....

Ammunition must be in a factory box or a reloaders box. Never loose.... Magazines should be empty, although I believe that the TSA doesn't care - but Southwest might.

The web sites should list age limits, if any.

(I'm wondering about "under 21", though, for possession of a handgun in OH. I know you can use one, under supervision on the range, without issues. I know, also, that you can't buy one, but a parent may be able to furnish one in this sort of situation. Pretty sure it's 18 for long guns, but that may not be true, either. I bought my daughter a total of three handguns before she turned 18, but never actually gave them to her. Now that she's over 21, she doesn't want them , but they've lived in my safe when not on the range. She does like to shoot....)

Enjoy the trip.... I'm off to El Paso in the next month or two, but nothing is firmed up yet.

(I see a "welcome aboard" is advised, too!)

Not going to poach, but you might want to check the OFCC or BFA boards for OH law details, or the AG's web site.

Regards,

 

[Ironhorse522]

Thanks for the advice, excuse my ignorance but what are the ofcc and bfa boards?

 

[chris in va]

Might just want to ship it to yourself if it's legal to do so in that state.

 

[Ironhorse522]

Have you done that? is that legal? I've heard about it but never from someone that has done it.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Might just want to ship it to yourself if it's legal to do so in that state.

Personally, I think that is just way too expensive and hassle. Extra trips to UPS, overnight shipping costs and possibly a counter person that isn't going to accept your LEGAL shipment. Compared to 10 extra minutes at the airport to tell the baggage counter person that you wish to declare an unloaded firearm in your checked baggage?

TSA are against the law to put on the case containing the firearm, by the way. They must be key padlocks or combination locks that ONLY the owner of the firearm has the key or combo to. If anyone asks for the key to open the case, politely refuse, informing them that you will be happy to open the case for them, but it is against Federal regulations for your to turn over the key or combination to anyone.

 

[MedWheeler]

+1 to what Navy said regarding the locks. Don't use a TSA one. The registered passenger is to be the only one with access to the case. Make sure the case is hard-sided. Ammunition may be in the magazines, but loaded magazines must be enclosed in something, such as a snapped mag pouch. Loaded, enclosed magazines may be in the same hard-sided case as the firearm. Ammunition not in a magazine must be in a container originally meant for holding such ammo, such as the box it came in, and that container must be closed.

 

[swinokur]

I'm curious why the use of a combination lock says "steal me." I use a combo lock precisely because TSA cannot ask me for the key. I am most definitely not giving out the combo to anyone. IMO that would seem to make more sense to a TSA monkey who asks for a key and I refuse to. Lastly, you cannot lose the key to a combo lock.

I also lock my firearm case inside my suitcase with a short cable and another combo lock. I think this helps deter baggage handllers who realize taking the firearm also requires taking the entire suitcase.

Loaded mags are ok by TSA as long as the open ends are covered, as in putting the mag into a mag carrier upside down. Not all airlines are comfortable with this however.

My .02

 

[bikemutt]

I use my own non-TSA locks but, I also place a TSA lock on the hasp. This is because if TSA decides they really want in and I'm not available, they have the right to, and will cut off my lock. When they are done, they can use the spare TSA lock to re-secure the case.

I've never had them actually cut my locks so I can't say this is how it would really play out, but it should

 

[swinokur]

You expect TSA to relock your TSA lock after cutting yours off? If they want in prior to being loaded on the plane, they are supposed to find you. They are entitled to open your suitcase, and that's it. Cutting a lock off your firearm case makes them the criminals.

No point in a lock if they are permitted to cut it off. They are NOT permitted to do this.

 

[thagunman]

first of all u may be able to posess it but here in texas u cant buy one or carry one until at least 21. also i believe that is a federal law. so it applies to all states not just sum just fyi

 

[brickeyee]

also i believe that is a federal law

.

Federal law says you cannot take possession of a handgun from an FFL unless you are at least 21.

It does NOT say a private party cannot sell& transfer (as in hand the gun to you) you a handgun.

Some states are more restrictive.

You cannot posses a handgun if you are under 18 in many states, or purchase a handgun in a private sale under federal law.

You also cannot purchase ammunition for a handgun from an FFL if you are under 21.

 

[bikemutt]

I believe TSA can cut your lock off if they want to, says so in the information bulletin. Do as you wish however, I have no dog in this hunt, just stating what I do.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Ironhorse:

The "OFCC" is the "Ohioans For Concealed Carry", and "BFA" is the "Buckeye Firearms Association".

OFCC can be found at http://www.ohioccw.org/.
The BFA is at http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/.

I'm a Moderator on the BFA forums....

I counsel against combination locks for the gun case as some TSA (or airline) fool will decide that they HAVE to have the key or combination to open the thing "behind the wall". They will (they have to) return your key, but who knows who's going to get that combination. They're not suppose to do that, but standing your ground may be a problem.

The only problems, btw, that I've ever had (bearing in mind that I'm WAY over 21 ) were at DFW and AUS. The countergal at DFW had no idea what the declaration card was about, and when she remembered, she had to call a supervisor to find out where they were (while a bunch of other people were in line behind me ). At AUS, the countergal was only slightly confused, but her supervisor wandered up and wanted to know why I had a gun.... Conversely, a guy at CLE (can't remember which airline) was fishing for a range invite instead .... Too far away, unfortunately.

Which leads to the standard (and I hope nobody else has mentioned this, but somebody should have ) - the counterperson (you can't check the bags at the curb!) has to give you a Firearms Declaration Card that you sign, certifying that the gun is unloaded. The card then goes on the OUTSIDE of the gun case (presuming a handgun), and thus INSIDE the outer "suitcase". Either hard or soft luggage is OK.

Just to avoid problems, I'd unload the magazines, too.... What do you do with them if the counterfolks or the TSA insist?

Presuming there's a Firearms card on the outside of the gun case, the TSA folks have no right or reason to cut the lock off the gun case. Not so for the outer case. The outer lock really is useless, but it discourages casual pilfering by people (other than employees ), and may help keep the case from opening up by itself.

While they may be supposed to find you first, don't count on it....

Regards,

 

[swinokur]

TSA regs say if they cannot gain access to a handgun case but need to do so,and cannot contact the owner, the luggage will not be placed on the aircraft in compliance with Fed law.

Where does it state the lock can be cut off?

 

[bikemutt]

TSA regs say if they cannot gain access to a handgun case but need to do so,and cannot contact the owner, the luggage will not be placed on the aircraft in compliance with Fed law.

Where does it state the lock can be cut off?

"TSA screens every passenger's baggage before it is placed on an airplane. While our technology allows us to electronically screen bags, there are times when we need to physically inspect a piece of luggage. TSA has worked with several companies to develop locks that can be opened by security officers using universal "master" keys so that the locks may not have to be cut. These locks are available at airports and travel stores nationwide. The packaging on the locks indicates whether they can be opened by TSA."

 

[swinokur]

This refers to luggage, not locked firearms containers. The agreement to allow luggage search is part of your contract of carriage when you purchase the ticket, but no where does it state the airline or TSA has a right to break open a locked firearms case if it was declared at check in. If TSA needs to enter a locked firearms continer, IMO the would have to obtain a search warrant from a judge and show PC for the search. That's why they state if they cannot contact the owner of luggage which has a locked firearm container, the luggage will not go on the plane. Nowhere does it state a locked firearm container will be opened without permission. That's why they say only you should have the key. The TSA locks are for luggage, not firearms containers

Breaking a properly declared flocked firearm case with a declaration tag with case inside luggage would be a 4th Amendment violation IMO.

 

[bikemutt]

As I said before, I hang a TSA lock on there as a standby, not as the primary lock. The last trip I took the TSA guy said he thought my idea was a good one, but maybe he doesn't know much.

It's an extra lock I happen to have laying around, it sure can't hurt to have it on the gun case.

 

[Ironhorse522]

I call SWA, and talked to some guy about the airport specific rules regarding me bringing my handgun with me. He said as long as it was in a good sturdy case that was locked I would be fine.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Ok, GO look at the sticky on firearms and flying.
the cite the law but here is the GIST

An Airport is a controlled secure zone
if the cut off you lock (non TSA in compliance with FEDERAL law.
there is now an UNSECURED weapon in a weapons free zone...
So the TSA is now in violation of their own policy, Regulation and FEDERAL law.

you do the math. The security of the firearm and the 'weapons free zone'
is that the guy with the ability TO access the firearm is SEPARATED FROM it.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

TSA inspects all firearm cases at the ticket counter. Travelers should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation. If travelers are not present and the security officer must open the container, TSA or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact the owner. If contact is not made, the container will not be placed on the aircraft.

Note this is from the TSA, so I take it with the same grain of salt as ATF FAQ's
Note what isn't said
That they WON'T cut the locks, rather refuse to load the bag
That they Can't keep the key
and that the MUST get the owner to open the bag.

Now can someone quote the federal regs, I don't have time to got dig them out.

 

[bikemutt]

Geez, when I'm wrong I'm wrong

I'm gonna throw that darn TSA lock away tonight and never use it again, I promise, I swear, it's toast!

 

[khegglie]

i have been told that a TSA lock on checked baggage is almost a steal me flag. Ive checked my firearm contained checked bag without any problems SO FAR

 

[macadore]

i have been told that a TSA lock on checked baggage is almost a steal me flag.

Not to be sarky, but why is this? Can anyone get a TSA key? If someone wanted to steal the firearm, couldn't they just carry off the case and open it at their leisure?

I just finished a round trip with a handgun in a case with a TSA lock and had no problems.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Now can someone quote the federal regs, I don't have time to got dig them out.

If TSA takes the key or combo from the firearm's owner, they are violating Fedederal regulations, whether or not they return the key:

49 CFR 1540.111:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...8&view=text&node=49:9.1.3.5.10.2.10.6&idno=49

§ 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals.

(c) In checked baggage. A passenger may not transport or offer for transport in checked baggage or in baggage carried in an inaccessible cargo hold under §1562.23 of this chapter:

(1) Any loaded firearm(s).

(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless—

(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing, before checking the baggage, that the passenger has a firearm in his or her bag and that it is unloaded;

(ii) The firearm is unloaded;

(iii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container; and

(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.
(3) Any unauthorized explosive or incendiary.

(d) Ammunition. This section does not prohibit the carriage of ammunition in checked baggage or in the same container as a firearm. Title 49 CFR part 175 provides additional requirements governing carriage of ammunition on aircraft.

 

[splithoof]

Well now, if y'all want some real government adventure while here on the Left Coast, take a trip through LAX with your firearm. Sometimes it's easy, but sometimes a REAL PAIN depending on which TSA Gestapo agent does the interrogation. Throw in a dose of the Airport Police, and see where you land. Just be very careful, buy insurance, and chances are it won't be too painful.