CHL and alcohol consumption

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jlr1962

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I am getting conflicting info. My CHL instructor says no alchohol consumption of any kind while carrying. Another forum member says look it up on the TDPS website o support their claim of no problem if not intoxicated. The website seems to say no carrying while at or above the same blood alchohol concentration for public intoxication or DWI, which is .08% in TX. Any of our Texas badge holders or lawyers know for sure? Can a CHL holder still have a gun in a vehicle not on their person if alchohol is consumed, but below the .08% blood alchohol content? Can a person without a CHL legally have a gun in their vehicle, not on their person if they have been drinking, but are below the .08% blood alchohol content?

That's right TX lawyers. I am hitting you up for free legal advice. Probably happens to you every day.
 
Can I get some free Florida advice? Sebastian, Others? :D I never go past .08. That does rhyme. 2 drinks, 6.1 ,210 pounds and never a DUI in 50 years.
 
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there are two alcohol consumption levels here. the per se limit of .08, and under the influence. you can be under the influence without being at the per se level.
 
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I'm less worried about carrying and drinking than I am about answering questions about impaired judgement if the gun was used in self defense. I do not mix.
 
oneouncelooad said:
FL has no issue if you have a drink or three - just not in a bar. If at a Chili's or similar, sit in the restaurant section and NOT at the bar

I follow your advice, Senor! To the limit. ;)
 
There are really three issues:

  1. In some States it will be illegal to carry if your BAC is at some specified level. I know in Nevada the BAC cutoff is 0.10. And in Arizona, for example, while a permit holder may carry concealed in a bar or restaurant which service alcohol, he may not consume alcohol.

  2. If you use your gun in what you claim is self defense, your perception and judgement will be potential issues. Therefore, anything that could impair your perception or judgement, including alcohol consumption, could be used against you.

  3. Alcohol can also impair your coordination and physical ability. Therefore, if you've consumed alcohol you might be less proficient with your gun than when sober.

The last two points were discussed here, here, here, and here.
 
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If you have to have the drink, then lock up both your guns and car keys.

Its not worth the risk.

If you have to have the drink, get rid of your guns and car.

Bob Wright
 
First, I'll state that someone who's drunk should NOT be driving OR carrying a concealed handgun.

In Texas, the law prohibits concealed carry if "intoxicated" . . . but since the TX CHL law doesn't define the term, many people assume this means a BAC of 0.08 or higher. On the other hand, some motorists have been successfully prosecuted for driving under the influence even with a lower BAC, so presumably this can apply to CHL holders as well; hence, some CHL instructors tend to err on the side of caution and say "even one drink" is forbidden. But that's not codified in the law.

In fact, IANAL, but from what I understand, there's no TX case law establishing that one drink can mean an intoxicated carry conviction for a CHL holder. (I'm not volunteering to be the test case!!)

And one more little tidbit - AFAIK, there is nothing in TX law that requires a TX CHL holder to submit to a sobriety test if he's NOT driving.

Frank Ettin said:
3. Alcohol can also impairs your coordination and physical ability. Therefore, if you've consumed alcohol you might be less proficient with your gun than when sober.
I wouldn't expect a drunk to shoot well, any more than I'd expect a drunk to drive well. BUT a generation or two back, some precision bullseye shooters were known to have a shot of whiskey right before a match to "steady the nerves." Whether it helped or hurt is open to debate, but I know I've always shot MY matches stone cold sober.
 
In Florida, the only prohibition regarding consuming and carrying (other than those prohibitions on where you can carry) is that you cannot "use" a firearm while under the influence. And, even that has an exception for lawful self-defense.

Admittedly, this does not address the OP's inquiry, though, as he is in Texas.
 
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some states are reasonable and use the same parameters on alcohol and vehicles as they do for alcohol and guns. some states are more authoritarian on guns and alcohol but not on vehicles and alcohol. check state laws for clarification.
 
[Guys, the OP is asking about TEXAS LAW. If you don't know what TEXAS LAW has to say on this matter, or how it has been applied, please don't interject other states' laws, or personal opinions and witticisms. Keep it focused, please. Thanks.]
 
here is the statute

d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.

police get to decide what intoxicated means. Safest thing is none.

here is the statute definition of intoxicated

2) "Intoxicated" means:
(A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or
(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.

This is how dps interprets it.

35. Can I carry a handgun when I am drinking alcohol?
Texas Penal Code §46.035 states it is unlawful for an individual who is intoxicated to carry a concealed handgun. The Penal Code defines “intoxicated” as not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance in the body.
 
I'm a lawyer who practices in Texas. This is a very murky area of Texas law, in part because there have been very few convictions under that Texas statute and none of them have been appealed (many of them were clearly good arrests without much room for argument) so we don't have the limits clearly defined.

There are basically two definitions of "intoxicated" under Texas law:
1) You have a blood alcohol concentration of greater than 0.08%
2) "not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body"

All the officer needs to arrest you and charge you with a crime is to be able to articulate a reasonable belief why you did not have "normal use of mental or physical faculties." He does not have to give you a blood test. In fact, one of the questions on the CHL test is "There is no legal limit of intoxication for concealed carry licensees in Texas" (which is TRUE). So you can be arrested for a violation of Texas Penal Code Sec. 46.035(d) (license holder carrying a handgun while intoxicated) with a BAC of less than .08% (just as drivers have been convicted with a BAC of less than .08%).

As a result, you are running a substantial risk when you choose to drink and carry a firearm in public (either as a CHL or as a non-licensed gun owner carrying in the glovebox of your vehicle), even if your BAC is less than 0.08%.

Let's look at a hypothetical. You have two 12oz beers, which for your weight leaves you with a 0.04% BAC. You roll through a stop sign and are pulled over by Officer Friendly. As required by law for CHLs, you notify Officer Friendly that you are carrying a firearm. Officer Friendly smells the beer on your breath. Officer Friendly, who is a good old Texas boy who went through his hunter safety course (where he was told expressly that guns and alcohol never mix) now has everything he needs to arrest and charge you.

1) You have a firearm
2) You lack normal use of your mental or physical faculties due to consumption of alcohol as demonstrated by your inability to control your vehicle (roll through a stop sign) and beer breath.

Now you may not be convicted on that evidence; but it will support an arrest and it will be every bit as expensive and stressful as a DWI case - and whether that result happens is 100% up to officer discretion and how he feels about guns and alcohol mixing (and its useful to keep in mind that the NRA is very big on "guns and alcohol don't mix" since what the world's largest firearms safety organization has to say on the subject is likely to inform attitudes).

For that reason, many Texas CHL instructors recommend not drinking at all while carrying. Some of those Texas CHL instructors are also licensed Texas Peace Officers themselves which is a big hint on what you might expect from LEOs who aren't licensed CHL instructors.

If you want to minimize your risk to the maximum extent possible, not mixing the two in public is good advice. If you want to find out exactly where the limits of the law are, well, lawyers need to buy .22 ammo too and someone has to be the test case. ;)
 
IANAL but just to add a little bit to Bartholomew Roberts' hypothetical example, thanks to implied consent laws, the CHL-holding driver of the vehicle would NOT be as free to refuse a sobriety test as a CHL-holding pedestrian or passenger would - so there would likely be legally admissible scientific proof of alcohol consumption, making his day in court that much more unpleasant.
 
If you want to find out exactly where the limits of the law are, well, lawyers need to buy .22 ammo too and someone has to be the test case.

I'd rather not contribute to the fund, no offense.. :)


I am a drinker and a TX CHL holder. If I partake at dinner ,I give the gun to my wife whom is also a holder. If she is not with me, I don't drink. Don't want to be the guy who beats the case but not the ride...
 
I am getting conflicting info. My CHL instructor says no alchohol consumption of any kind while carrying. Another forum member says look it up on the TDPS website o support their claim of no problem if not intoxicated. The website seems to say no carrying while at or above the same blood alchohol concentration for public intoxication or DWI, which is .08% in TX. Any of our Texas badge holders or lawyers know for sure? Can a CHL holder still have a gun in a vehicle not on their person if alchohol is consumed, but below the .08% blood alchohol content? Can a person without a CHL legally have a gun in their vehicle, not on their person if they have been drinking, but are below the .08% blood alchohol content?

That's right TX lawyers. I am hitting you up for free legal advice. Probably happens to you every day.
I am not a lawyer and not from Texas. Further, I advocate the punishment of first offense DUI to be a major felony with no less than 10 years in prison so my advice may be a bit skewed by my hatred of demon rum.

With that disclaimer, keep in mind that according to the corollary of Murphy's Law when things go bad they will do so at the worst possible time. You finish your consumption of the waters from the river Styx and are accosted by a ne'er do well who threatens your life, property and virginity with a deadly weapon. You pull your legal CCW (or CHL) and rightfully and lawfully defend yourself in the textbook definition of self defense homicide.

The next day the report lands on the desk of a prosecutor with either political ambitions that needs that big case or simply wants to send a message about people carrying around those scary handguns with nobody knowing they have one. Do you honestly believe such a DA is not going to milk the drinking angle to the maximum degree?
 
If you have to have the drink, then lock up both your guns and car keys.

Its not worth the risk.

If you have to have the drink, get rid of your guns and car.

As Clint said, "A man has to know his limitations"....For some folks having a beer or whatever with dinner is nothing; for others it is. It is up to YOU to know YOURS, follow your state's law, and go accordingly.
 
Thank all of you for your responses. I got the the response as I expected, from the sensible sources. I won't risk others people's safety for my own warm fuzzy feeling of of being armed. The law is unclear for a reason. It allows a given judge to JUDGE the given situation. Does this make me a flaming liberal:barf::barf::barf:.
 
Just say no.....

Listen to your CCW class instructor.
No hooch. ;)
And no medications or prescription drugs with harmful side-effects/impairment.

Also, if you say; hey so what or I don't care, keep that in mind when you get sued or your estate trys to sue/file civil actions against Ruger-S&W-SIG Sauer when the owner's manual & safety notices clearly say: no drinking & no drug use with their products, you or they will lose!

Be smart, stay sober or lock up your guns and get plowed.
 
It's possible I live in Texas. It's also possible I carry every day, work or not. The most possible thing of all is that *IF* you are carrying your legal piece *AND* are over 0.01% *WHILE* doing so, you can be arrested in the State of Texas. Conviction's another story, but you can be arrested.

Driving or not, driver or not, in a car or not. Your weapon weighs 4,000# less than the DUI in the next lane.

Please treat your pistol like your car, your 747, your yacht or your medical license and don't add alcohol to the mix. As others have said, drinking is fine when unarmed. Frankly, I don't want your drunk ass trying to figure out which of the three thugs in front of you to shoot at, so you hit my Nanna instead.

The BAC number is there so that peoples' definition of "I'm fine" can be normalized in a Court of Law. 0.07% might be legal to me, but it doesn't guarantee you won't be arrested for DUI, and it CERTAINLY won't pass muster if you're under 21.

Just don't drink and carry. Simple, easy self-policing we can all agree to.
 
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