Chronograph Questions

[Doublehelix]

I have been kicking around the idea of getting a chronograph for a long, long time.

My problem is that I keep thinking that I need to get a Labradar for so many reasons, but the cost keeps me from pulling the trigger.

I can always get a less expensive chrono I guess (~$100 range), but I hate the downsides (light issues, clouds, wind, lead poisoning, need a cold range to setup, lots more to carry and setup, etc.).

I was looking to get a Labradar with my tax refund, but bought a Dillon XL650 instead for the same price, and obviously the XL650 is going to get a *LOT* more use over the years than the Labradar.

So...

-Tell me again why I *need* a chronograph. How will it help me?
-How much of a pain really are those downsides I list?
-Is this just a "shutup and buy one" sort of thing?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[otisrush]

I have a traditional chronograph. I'm definitely in the learning stages regarding how the velocity analytics (such as extreme spread, standard deviation, etc.) should actually be interpreted. But this is what I *think* I know.....

* Loads that group best tend to have consistent velocity measurements. Now, it's logical to then ask (as I would) "Well - I can tell if something is grouping better by looking at the target. I don't need velocities to tell me if they should group well or not." So someone else more knowledgeable than me will need to comment on that.
* I think as one gets up into the higher range of load for a given caliber/powder/bullet weight, higher charge doesn't always translate into higher muzzle velocity. So the chronograph will identify when more powder doesn't result in more velocity - so you don't unnecessarily go to higher pressure with no benefit.
* (This is the main reason I want one.) If I know the muzzle velocity, I can predict much better (using a ballistics app) what the trajectory/performance will be as target distances increase. I believe/hope I'll have a much better feel for what the drop, for example, will be at 300, 400, X00 yards.

Setting it up is a pain. If I'm going to use it I definitely try to do so at a time I hope the range will not be very crowded. I've found it helps a ton to set it up as much as possible behind the firing line before the range is called cold. Then I just have to take the whole setup out and hopefully just do fine tuning. The problem is that in one cold range call I want to get targets placed at 100yds *and* set up the chrono....and be sure I'm not going to shoot it. :-O So running down range, placing targets, then running back to enable me to get the chrono placed and aligned precisely is a bit pressure filled. Conversely, doing so when I'm the only one there is heaven-on-earth.

I haven't used mine a lot, but I've never had the light issues some talk of. I use thin wooden dowels to hold up the light shrouds in case I do shoot them. (I read in a forum that there are two types of chrono owners: those that have shot their chrono and those that will.) I nicked one of the metal rods. I was very lucky doing so didn't transmit large amounts of energy to the unit itself. I figure the dowels have enough structure to hold up the shrouds but will break without risking the actual unit.

OR

BTW - I have the ProChrono with the Bluetooth adapter. The ProChrono display is such (large and clear enough) that it can be read from the bench. I did that a few times. But the addition of the Bluetooth adapter is *HUGE*. I can define shot strings, do analytics on them, etc. without going in front of the firing line. It's fantastic.

 

[GBExpat]

... but I hate the downsides (light issues, clouds, wind, lead poisoning, need a cold range to setup, lots more to carry and setup, etc.). ...

I use mine in my backyard so I cannot answer to the public-range-specific issues.

I have never experienced any major problems involving light, clouds or wind ... and this is the first that I have heard that there is supposed to be a "lead poisoning" worry.

For over 15 years I have used a Chrony Beta Master (in the past few years with maxed memory) and the only problem that I have with the thing is the fact that having to manually transfer results to an Excel file is a minor PITA.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I'm sure Lab Radars are great but I wouldn't spend that much money.
My Pro Crony works well.
I have a Shooting Crony that is complete garbage but some have good luck with them.
The $100 - $200 cronys are not necessarily precisely accurate, they may read a little fast or slow. As long as they are consistent it helps in load development. Long range ladder testing will show your true velocity.

 

[cfullgraf]

First, I have a LabRadar chronograph and like it very much. But, it is expensive and the bottom line is it does not do anything for the final results that are different than any other chronograph.

I've had four other chronographs over the years, two Chronys, a CED M2, and a Magnetospeed.

Two have expired from "lead poisoning". Just remember the old saying, "Haste makes waste" and your chronograph will have a long useful life. It is important to remember the line of sight axis and bore axis difference with rifles.

The light source can cause issues, I've found more problems with small diameter bullets than larger one. There are usually adjustments that can be made to solve the issues and get good results. Some of the things that I have found cause problems are...

Direct sunlight on one or more or the sensors, mostly occurs early in the day, late in the day or during the winter when the sun is low in the sky.
Light reflections from the ground.
Small diameter bullet, like 17 and 20 caliber.
Sensor unit too close to gun.
Scatter cloud layer moving by.
And probably a few others that I have forgotten.

I kept a black marker in my kit to put a black ring on the bullets that the sensor had trouble seeing and I'd bring some tape and card stock to build shades to keep the sun from shining directly on the sensors.

Finally, with the M2, I bought the infrared lights and virtually all my sensor issues went away.

The more expensive chronographs tend to have better ways to get the information to a computer other than typing it manually. Some use propriety software, some download the data to existing readily available software. Some transfer via a memory card, some require plugging the unit into the computer, and I think one may use a blue tooth connection.

The LabRadar is not without issues though. I've only missed one reading with mine but some folks have had problems getting readings reliably. Also, the distance of the down range is not as far as some folks would like to see.

Hope this helps.

 

[GBExpat]

Two have expired from "lead poisoning".

Hahaha ... Got It! ... finally ...

Thanks!

 

[MSgtEgress]

I replaced my 1st gen shooting chrony last year with a Caldwell kit which included a case tripod daylight sky screens powered indoor infrared and data cord for your smartphone download the free app gives you sd, extreme spread, energy got it on amazon for 114

 

[dgod]

I have the Chrony Pro, with the ballistic software application, it will load data (By Group) directly into the Chrony software (Via USB), I also have the Printer (Haven't used it..). I have not had issues with the Clouds, etc. I would ask, do you handload? Why? Do you want to keep Good/Accurate records? Why? There are many applications that will give you Ballistic Trajectory information if: You know the Bullet Weight, the Velocity, the firearm specifics, and you can set the parameters. For instance, what would be the trajectory (Bullet Path) for a 265 grain bullet, traveling at 3214 fps, with a Ballistic Coefficient of 0.645, out of a 22" 1 in 10 twist bolt action rifle? The deviation lets you know 1) How accurate your loads are, 2) what if any changes due to weather. To know all of this, allows you to predict the Ballistic Path or Trajectory of the fired bullet. Now, you know what to expect from a specific load.

Answer: 1.7" High at 100 yds, Dead on at 200 yds, -5.8" at 300 yds, -16.2" at 400 yds. Crosswind Deflection at 100 yds = 0.4", 200 yds = 1.6", 300 Yds = 3.7", 400 Yds = 6.8".... That is the Value of a Chronograph. How else would you know the velocity? You would know the rest (Or Should).

I think Inches is easier to understand as opposed to MOA...

Good Luck

 

[murf]

maybe you should first get the cheaper $100 dollar chrony. see how you like it and see if you actually need it before you spend the big bucks. keep the cheap chrony for a backup.

murf

 

[cfullgraf]

Hahaha ... Got It! ... finally ...

Thanks!

Yup, chronographs do not react well to bullets.

In my case, 45 ACP and 204 Ruger.

 

[MSgtEgress]

I replaced my 1st gen shooting chrony last year with a Caldwell chronograph kit which includes a soft case, tripod, 2sets of sky screens one outdoor one infrared lighted indoor that can be powered by 110VDC or a battery pack and a data cable that goes in your smartphone headphone jack. (Sorry iPhone 7 users). The app is free and give average velocity, SD, extreme spread, energy not bad for 114$ on amazon

 

[jmr40]

I've had the Chrony F1 for a few years. It ain't perfect. It seems to either work great or not at all. Most of the time when I take it out it works great and gives me reading that are within the expected ranges. But there have been a few days when it simply wasn't usable, giving readings that were nonsensical or no reading at all. When that happens I just pack it up and use it the next time out. While not perfect, I can't justify the expense of the better units. I may only use mine once or twice a year, but it is information I want.

If I had it to do over again I'd buy this for about the same money. Based on what I read this appears to be a better unit at about the same price.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Competition-Electronics-Prochrono-Digital-Chronograph/37466422

 

[hdwhit]

I've had a Chooting Chrony for roughly 25 years.

I think otisrush did a great job laying out the reasons a chronograph is a useful piece of equipment in Post #2.

Like otisrush, I started using wood dowels (bamboo shis-ka-bob skewers) after hitting the metal rods holding up the skyscreens. I can confirm that as otisrush assumed, they will break if hit without damaging the unit.

Also, the plastic on my skyscreens got so brittle over the years that they eventually just disintegrated. I've had good luck using sections cut from plastic milk jugs. They're about the right translucence and they seem more durable than the originals.

As to the subject of the original post, if I shot my Chrony, I would buy another one. If I had the money to spend on a LabRadar, I think I would probably spend it on a new gun.

 

[SARuger]

I have the LabRadar. Its awesome, it works as advertised, it loves larger bullets, sometimes struggles to find smaller bullets at longer ranges. Set up is easy, everybody at the range will want to shoot on it.

 

[muncie21]

I have the Caldwelll kit like some other folks and really, really like it. The ability to save all the chrono data directly to your phone/tablet is a time saver and very valuable to me. For a reloader that is developing new loads, the chrono is a tool that provides objective data to evaluate the results of your testing....kinda like using a dyno to test the modifications to your car, rather than rely on your 'butt dyno'

For the $100 or that a chrono costs, it's a good investment....just take care with the lead poisoning

 

[jmorris]

I have 3 myself and used a bunch of others, the one I use most is a shootingchrony I have $20 in because of a coupon. Because it's so cheap I keep in a plastic box that rides in my truck pretty much anywhere I may go shooting and other than that stays setup on a tripod in my shop.

On an over cast day you don't need to mess with the rods or sky screens and for the life of me I can't figure out why they didn't add a momentary button to the face plate but they do have a jack on the side that allows one simple access to additional features.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

The problem experienced with lighting is usually from CFL's at indoor ranges on the "4100" units.. I've ran My Pro Chrono in all manner of light and the only issues I had was when I set it too close when testing some 10mm with PP. The Blast from PP acts more like a rifle or a 44 mag. Moved it back and no issues. That and a guy shooting next to me had some weird blast from an AR10 in 308 with a Comp. the waves were reading on my chrono so I had shots counting from him 2 bays over! Velocity readings by his gun only read in the 700's so I could distinguish them. Still an unwanted reading.

Anyhow if you have a remote or the app you can delete errors and just load an extra test round or two. Besides that the need for a Chrono is not as much a need as a want for me. They can do some things but good loading practice and components is all most anyone needs.

I shot one string of some rifle test loads and the ES and SD where great but the holes in the target not so much and only added to the confusion. Threw the numbers out. Just no value. I guess knowing what some loads are doing velocity wise is the main reason I got one to begin with. Curious about pistol carbine loads and coated bullet velocities. I don't use it much so in the end I could have lived without it.

 

[LoonWulf]

Ive got a cheap ProChrono Digital, and ive got a Magnetospeed v3.

When correctly set up the Prochrono is within 50fps of the Magnetospeed, which could partly be the distance from the muzzle.

I use the Magnetospeed pretty much exclusively now, it does take some time set up, but if your shooting it on guns with similar barrel profiles its pretty quick. It works in any lighting or weather condition, provides good data, and is reasonably affordable.
The only guns i.havent managed to get it attached to are autoloaders without a rail. We straped it to everything else we could find just fine.

 

[Dudedog]

I have the Pro chrono digital and like it. Upgraded from a Prochrono PAL because I wanted the USB hookup, both worked fine.
No dead chronos yet but as mentione earlier when using a rifle be aware of sight line vs bore line.
I

 

[FROGO207]

I shot my first Crony a few years ago and recently acquired a used one for a good price from a member here as a replacement. I now use the bamboo skewers to set it up with and use colored tape on them to make sure I do not aim lower than I should. For outdoor use I have one of those small 8X8 portable canopy rigs that it sits under. Then no need for sky screens and will not get wet if cloudy and raining. I usually get the outdoor range to myself then. I will use the sky screens inside but have had OK results with the florescent lights in the clubhouse range. For my uses the inexpensive Crony is as good as I will ever need. Not into shooting across canyons at sheep in windy weather, just 100-200 YDS max shots. YMMV

 

[Berger.Fan222]

I like the LabRadar. Easy to set up. You can measure BCs as well as velocities. No need to fiddle around down range (a benefit at public ranges and where others are shooting). Friends have also shot a few of the skyscreen type chronographs over the years, including mine!

Not having to place or adjust equipment in front of the firing line is a huge advantage in many situations. Rifle guys are always tweaking loads, so extreme spread and standard deviation are important for accuracy at 600-1000 yards. Pistol guys want to know their Power Factor for many applications.

 

[berettaprofessor]

Have a shooting Crony. I carry it in a small ammo box from Walmart and use it on a dedicated tripod. Setup is 3 minutes from the time I open the box and I've never had problems with it. Records accurately, comes pretty close to the printed values when I shoot any factory ammo (which may be difference in the gun/barrel I'm shooting from rather than the chrony being off). It misses maybe one shot in every 15 or 20, otherwise perfect. I've never shot it so I can't speak to the lead poisoning.

 

[VAReloader]

I had an RCBS Ammomaster but it died. Then I bought the Caldwell unit, not bad for the price. Now I use a Magnetospeed exclusively. It's a little pricey but if you shoot at an indoor range, it's great as it's attached to your gun. I use it on rifles and pistols, the pistols with rails are a much easier setup. Lots of good data in Excel files, most units probably do that too.

 

[CB900F]

Doublehelix;

I've had my Oehler 35P for somethng like 30 years now, bought it sometime in the 80's, I know that. The price isn't much different than the Labradar, particularly if you buy some of what Lab views as accessories, such as the padded carrying case. The Oehler now comes with a case.

The Oehler can be a bit of a PIA to set up, but if you get things laid out beforehand & think about it, it isn't any too bad. I use the 4 foot screen spacing exclusively anymore & have a stand built to hold the rail properly & stabilize it. Having a 4 foot setting allows the check channel to be 2 feet, & the accuracy is there. You see, the Oehler is not one, but two separate chronographs, the two foot channel checks the 4 foot & alerts you if something literally doesn't add up. Also, the timer & printer stay on your bench, really hard to shoot 'em that way. The downrange bits can be shot, but now you are looking at minimal money to replace parts instead of buying a new chrono.

The unit prints out every shot in the string & summarizes with high, low, average, spread between H & L, and standard deviation. As distance increases, S/D becomes more important as variation in velocity inevitably means different impact points when you get "out there". Single digit S/D's are the holy grail.

I'm a long term happy owner.

900F

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Doublehelix;

I've had my Oehler 35P for somethng like 30 years now, bought it sometime in the 80's, I know that. The price isn't much different than the Labradar, particularly if you buy some of what Lab views as accessories, such as the padded carrying case. The Oehler now comes with a case.

The Oehler can be a bit of a PIA to set up, but if you get things laid out beforehand & think about it, it isn't any too bad. I use the 4 foot screen spacing exclusively anymore & have a stand built to hold the rail properly & stabilize it. Having a 4 foot setting allows the check channel to be 2 feet, & the accuracy is there. You see, the Oehler is not one, but two separate chronographs, the two foot channel checks the 4 foot & alerts you if something literally doesn't add up. Also, the timer & printer stay on your bench, really hard to shoot 'em that way. The downrange bits can be shot, but now you are looking at minimal money to replace parts instead of buying a new chrono.

The unit prints out every shot in the string & summarizes with high, low, average, spread between H & L, and standard deviation. As distance increases, S/D becomes more important as variation in velocity inevitably means different impact points when you get "out there". Single digit S/D's are the holy grail.

I'm a long term happy owner.

900F

I have always heard O 35's were the best, wish they were still making them.